ANZAC or Anzac?

[Dianaa]

If we have Anzac does it also mean we have Cmp?

[Lang]

The use of ANZAC as an official acronym (as opposed to general unofficial usage at appropriate times when Australians and New Zealanders have fought together, such as Vietnam) was not restricted to WW1. When the disasterous WW2 Greek campaign got underway the acronym ANZAC was revived officially for the composite (short lived) formation.

As explained above, using the "word" ANZAC's to describe individual soldiers is clearly wrong. By putting an "s" on the acronym you are talking about both the Gallipoli formation and the Greek formation. The soldiers are described by the "word" Anzac's - clearly derived from the acronym but with an entirely different meaning. I am sure the Anzac biscuit is meant to be eaten by an Anzac soldier and not a supply item for an ANZAC Q Store.

Lang

[Keith Webb]

Originally Posted by Dianaa

If we have Anzac does it also mean we have Cmp?

Don't even go there!

[Lynn Eades]

Keith, Cmp? There are probably a few on here with Cardiomyopathy.

There are some clever buggers here....Unlike some people who make signs.

[Tony Wheeler]

We seem to be getting lost in semantics and linguistics here, partly my fault I suspect. Let's get back to the facts for a moment.

As we know, ANZAC is a military acronym, which stands for Australian and New Zealand Army Corps. Therefore when you celebrate 'ANZAC Day' you are celebrating the Australian and New Zealand Army Corps. That includes all the British and Indian Brigades and Divisions, and units of various other nationalities that formed part of ANZAC at one time or another. It does not include the AFC, the RAAF, the RAN, the RNZAF, the RNZN, the 2nd AIF, or the 2nd NZEF, except for the shortlived ANZAC formation during the '41 Greek campaign. Nor does it include Australians and New Zealanders who served in British or other national Armies, Navies, or Air Forces. Most obviously it does not include servicemen and women since WWII.

That's why we've always celebrated 'Anzac Day'. From the very beginning the word 'Anzac' was coined in reference to Australians and New Zealanders, irrespective of Command, and the word 'Anzac' retained currency after the two ANZAC Corps ceased to exist in 1917. It remains current today, and notwithstanding any trans-Tasman confusion that may exist, the rest of the world appears to be in little doubt as to its meaning, certainly if their English dictionaries are any guide:

UK. Oxford: Anzac (noun):
1. A soldier in the Australian an New Zealand Army Corps (1914-1918)
1.1 informal: A person from Australia or New Zealand, especially a member of the armed services.

USA. Merriam-Webster: Anzac (noun): a soldier from Australia or New Zealand

Thanks to this uniting word, we are able to celebrate Anzac Day as a commemoration and a tribute to ALL Australian and New Zealand servicemen and women, past and present, and express our desire to associate ourselves with the values they represent. These values we loosely define as 'the Anzac spirit', and we would like to think the Anzac spirit informs our national character both in Australia and New Zealand. We do not refer to it as the ANZAC spirit, or the RAAF spirit, or the RNZN spirit, because these terms are not all-embracing.

You'll find a brief summation of the Anzac spirit on the AWM website, including the origins of the word 'Anzac' itself, and I'd suggest it's required reading for this debate: http://www.awm.gov.au/encyclopedia/anzac/spirit.asp

Also worth noting are NZNWM guidelines for use of ANZAC or Anzac: "We recommend using the term 'ANZAC' with all capitals only when referring to the specific Corps. For all other uses 'Anzac' is preferred." http://www.mch.govt.nz/nz-identity-h...zac-guidelines

[Tony Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Dianaa

If we have Anzac does it also mean we have Cmp?

No, you need some vowels if you want to make a word. Like they made jeep out of GP. That became beep for the Dodge so I guess we could make ceep for the CMP. Of course we're probably about 70 years too late, esp. in Australia where it's always been blitz. Not that we need a word for CMP, it rolls off the tongue pretty well.

[Lynn Eades]

Very good 2nd to last post Tony. Thank you for the logical reasoning.

[Lang]

Tony

Agree, your summation is very good and should put the argument to bed.

Lang

[lynx42]

I have read every word in this terrific thread, Thanks Mike C. for starting it.

All the respondents seem to agree that ANZAC/Anzac usage actually came from the Gallipoli Campaign. Not so, It was coined as a time saver during January 1915 in Egypt.

I have gone to:-

"THE OFFICIAL HISTORY OF AUSTRALIA IN THE WAR OF 1914-1918

VOLUME I

THE STORY OF ANZAC"
By C.E.W. Bean
(1921)

Page 124 says that it was coined as a Code word to shorten the long "Australian and New Zealand Army Corps" headings then being used.

Thanks to the following:- Lieutenant A. T. White, who suggested it to Major C.M.Wagstaff who passed the suggestion on to Birdwoods staff and also Sgt. G.C.Little who first asked Sgt. H.V.Milligton to "throw him the ANZAC stamp".

scan0388a.jpg

This Volume I, the first part of the 13 Volume history of WWI. (There are an average 741 pages to each volume). There are mentions of the Australian & New Zealand Army Corps numerous times BEFORE page 545. On page 545 of that first volume is the first mention of the word Anzac, at Anzac.
" About April 29th - the day upon which Sir Ian Hamilton first visited the headquarters of the Army Corps - General Birdwood asked that the Beach between the two knolls, being the original landing-place, should be known as "Anzac Cove" and the name "Anzac" till then the code name of the Army Corps, was gradually applied to the whole area."
see this attachment.

scan0387a.jpg

Further into that actual history in Volume IV. there is a map on page 740, (1030 pages in this volume), is both usages of the word. ANZAC is used as a Code on the map and Anzac as a noun so you know who is being referred to. see here

scan0386.jpg

This is our Official history and therefore this is the correct spelling and usage of the word and all other arguments are unnecessary.

Maybe we need to educate the media.

Regards Rick.

[Mike Cecil]

Excellent, Rick.

Everyone's input has been great and most stimulating. I think we may all have learned a thing or two about ANZAC/Anzac and its proper use, and about its origin.

Mike C

[Dianaa]

Hi Rick

While I don't doubt your reasoning about the word "Anzac" from Vol 1 of The Official History of Australia in the War of 1914-1918, however Vol 1 was first published in 1921.

The use of the non-capitalised form may therefore have developed after 1915 and Bean used it in that form when writing Vol 1 only because it it had come into common usage by that time. It would be nice if we could see the form from the original sources, like Birdwood's correspondence rather than from secondary sources like Bean's "History" official or not.

Diana