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#1
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Tony
Agree, your summation is very good and should put the argument to bed. Lang |
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#2
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I have read every word in this terrific thread, Thanks Mike C. for starting it.
All the respondents seem to agree that ANZAC/Anzac usage actually came from the Gallipoli Campaign. Not so, It was coined as a time saver during January 1915 in Egypt. I have gone to:- "THE OFFICIAL HISTORY OF AUSTRALIA IN THE WAR OF 1914-1918 VOLUME I THE STORY OF ANZAC" By C.E.W. Bean (1921) Page 124 says that it was coined as a Code word to shorten the long "Australian and New Zealand Army Corps" headings then being used. Thanks to the following:- Lieutenant A. T. White, who suggested it to Major C.M.Wagstaff who passed the suggestion on to Birdwoods staff and also Sgt. G.C.Little who first asked Sgt. H.V.Milligton to "throw him the ANZAC stamp". scan0388a.jpg This Volume I, the first part of the 13 Volume history of WWI. (There are an average 741 pages to each volume). There are mentions of the Australian & New Zealand Army Corps numerous times BEFORE page 545. On page 545 of that first volume is the first mention of the word Anzac, at Anzac. " About April 29th - the day upon which Sir Ian Hamilton first visited the headquarters of the Army Corps - General Birdwood asked that the Beach between the two knolls, being the original landing-place, should be known as "Anzac Cove" and the name "Anzac" till then the code name of the Army Corps, was gradually applied to the whole area." see this attachment. scan0387a.jpg Further into that actual history in Volume IV. there is a map on page 740, (1030 pages in this volume), is both usages of the word. ANZAC is used as a Code on the map and Anzac as a noun so you know who is being referred to. see here scan0386.jpg This is our Official history and therefore this is the correct spelling and usage of the word and all other arguments are unnecessary. Maybe we need to educate the media. Regards Rick.
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1916 Albion A10 1942 White Scoutcar 1940 Chev Staff Car 1940 F30S Cab11 1940 Chev WA LRDG "Te Hai" 1941 F60L Cab12 1943 Ford Lynx 1942 Bren Gun Carrier VR no.2250 Humber FV1601A Saracen Mk1(?) 25pdr. 1940 Weir No.266 25pdr. Australian Short No.185 (?) KVE Member. |
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#3
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Excellent, Rick.
Everyone's input has been great and most stimulating. I think we may all have learned a thing or two about ANZAC/Anzac and its proper use, and about its origin. Mike C |
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#4
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Hi Rick
While I don't doubt your reasoning about the word "Anzac" from Vol 1 of The Official History of Australia in the War of 1914-1918, however Vol 1 was first published in 1921. The use of the non-capitalised form may therefore have developed after 1915 and Bean used it in that form when writing Vol 1 only because it it had come into common usage by that time. It would be nice if we could see the form from the original sources, like Birdwood's correspondence rather than from secondary sources like Bean's "History" official or not. Diana |
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#5
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I thought it interesting that in New Zealand the word Anzac was already protected by law in 1916 (see link in Tony's post)
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Bluebell Carrier Armoured O.P. No1 Mk3 W. T84991 Carrier Bren No2.Mk.I. NewZealand Railways. NZR.6. Dodge WC55. 37mm Gun Motor Carriage M6 Jeep Mb #135668 So many questions.... |
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#6
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Dianaa,
From my original post..... "I've just had a quick look at the NLA's Trove, and the first use of the word 'Anzac/ANZAC' in newspapers was in quotes from the report to the Minister for Defence from Sir Ian Hamilton. This report was widely quoted, ostensibly verbatim, in newspapers in June 1915. The text includes '...I received information from Anzac that enemy reinforcements had been seen...'. Already a word, it seems, by that early stage. Also in the June 1915 newspapers were 'on site' reports from CEW Bean (the 'father' of the AWM, and who went on to write the First World War Official History), again quoted verbatim, in which he states '...at no time during the fighting in what is now known as Anzac Bay ...'. Bean continued to use this 'proper word' convention post-war in the official history, Volume 2: The Story of Anzac. While headings are all caps, the word 'Anzac' within the text and in map and image captions is in upper and lower case, ie used as a proper word." So at least June 1915, but from the entries discovered by Rick, quite probably (almost certainly?) earlier in the form 'Anzac'. Mike C |
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#7
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Quote:
To quote: "Devised by a signaller in Egypt as a useful acronym for “Australian and New Zealand Army Corps”, it quickly became a word with many uses and meanings." Once again there's no mention of any date, but given that planning commenced in late 1914, after Britain declared war on Turkey and the Australians and New Zealanders were diverted to Egypt, it's entirely inconceivable that signallers waited until after the landing to coin the acronym, and used the longhand form during months of training and organization in Egypt and on Lemnos. Rick's info states "one day early in 1915", and while Bean may have written this in 1921 it does not alter the context. Clearly an acronym was needed for signals, and once it had been coined it would instantly become a word in speech at HQ, thereafter to be written as such. There's no suggestion its usage arose amongst the troops themselves, nor would that make any sense. Even Bean goes on to state: "It was, however, some time before the code word came into general use, and at the Landing many men in the divisions had not yet heard of it." Therefore it had to be some time between declaration of war on 5/11/14 and the landing itself on 25/4/15, and logically it would be closer to the first date. As Diana suggests though it would be interesting to see the earliest written use of the word in a primary source. Certainly you'd expect it to be a long time before a military signals code became casualized in newspapers, which as Mike has shown had already occurred by June '15. Just on a side note, I read somewhere during this discussion that the title 'Australasian Army Corps' was coined initially, and even appeared in the unit diary. The suggestion was that the Kiwis objected so it was abandoned. If true, then it's the Kiwis themselves who are responsible for the word they now find so objectionable!
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One of the original Australian CMP hunters. |
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