You know you want one! M113A1 for sale

[Frank v R]

sorry to tell you Rob , you will not see the LS , last trip to Pet , 2 Horse had their compound full of LS, HL, and ML's going to the chipper, also G-wagon will never come out, you will all need to wait for the Milcot's, does anyone know of anything new in the pipeline to replace all these vehicles, pray we don't get into another shooting war, the only good transport still in the system will be the MK 4 CB and don't wear them out!

[David Dunlop]

When 2PPCLI were still based here in Winnipeg, there was a vehicle in service members of the Regt referred to as "the Italian Bread Truck". I think it might have been built/assembled out West somewhere. Anyone know what it actually was, if it is still in service, or if it ever made it through Crown Assets to the civvies market?

David

[Frank v R]

you are speaking of the LSVW, we had a different name for them , please no one take offence , we called them wop wagons , they are Fiats, assembled by Western Star Trucks in BC, we thought they were bad , then came the CF version of the G-wagon , too bad we bought that one, the old ones were solid dumb trucks , easy to fix in the field , soft top G-wagons were in the comp. to replace the M-38A1's but they chose the Iltis with a gas engine , the LSVW was also a simple diesel, no electronics, now you can't fix any of the new wheeled vehicles in the field, polish those combat boots,

[David Dunlop]

Sadly, Frank, you have hit the nail squarely on the head and the powers that be (once again) do not seem to have learned anything from History.

We look back at WW2 and all wax poetic about the amazing aspects of German Tank design, but the weak point with them was the overly complex design which drastically reduced production capability. Compare to the Sherman and T34 which may not entirely have matched the technical level of the German tanks but could be built in greater numbers. The concept of keeping it simple was understood loud and clear.

Clearly, that lesson has been lost on the people today, both in the military and manufacturing sectors, when it comes to new equipment designs. It doesn't make it any easier, either, when you also factor in the present "disposable culture" we have created. We just don't seem to care anymore that things are no longer built to last. (Do not get me started on the current generation of maintenance free car batteries.)

You are right as far as the guys on the ground are concerned. Their best investment down the road will be a good pair of boots. At least they will have that option. Pity the pilots if the F35 ever goes into service. Technology is running amok with that project with no end in sight. Makes the old Avro Arrow look like the deal of the century now, doesn't it.


David

[chrisgrove]

The problem we have over here across the pond is that even military vehicles have to comply with EU emission regulations. That means that nice simple gas and diesel vehicles are ruled out. Though the French ACMAT trucks are said to be pretty simple and rugged. I expect the French, pragmatically, are just ignoring the EU rules as they often seem to do.

I expect that similar considerations apply to military vehicles across your side too.

Chris

[David Dunlop]

Chris.

Interesting point, particularly in regards to the degree of common sense lacking from it which is so typical of political decisions made that directly impact our various military establishments today. We have developed such an amazing assortment of weapons that can lay waste and pollute the environment in so many ways, but God forbid the vehicles used by the military should be allowed to fail modern day emission standards. Somebody might get sick or hurt or even die.

Not sure what it is like out your way with ownership and operation of vintage MV's, but here in Manitoba it seems that every few years some political clowns try and legislate vintage vehicles of any kind off the road because they pollute, or don't meet modern safety standards in one way or another. It seems that only when they are confronted by documentation confirming the very low numbers of these amazing vehicles actually on the road, and how infrequently they are actually on the road, the politicians back off. Then a new batch get elected and we have to beat them into shape all over again!

I can't help but think that all our current problems with the Canadian and American governments growing reluctance to dispose of obsolete MV's can be traced directly to the lawsuits brought against the US authorities a few decades back when one or two idiots bought surplus M151's and proceeded to kill themselves in them by not driving them properly. Things went downhill very quickly after that happened.

It is sad that interesting, old military vehicles like the M113 series, or any other armoured vehicles for that matter are regarded with such fear by the politicians, should they ever end up intact in the hands of collectors. Probably a good thing they have not realized just how many Bren gun carriers, half tracks and other bits of armour are actually out there already.

David

[rob love]

Originally Posted by David Dunlop

Probably a good thing they have not realized just how many Bren gun carriers, half tracks and other bits of armour are actually out there already.

David

When two collectors tried to drive up parliament hill a decade or two back for a photo op with their ferret (and a dewat GPMG attached to the top) the subject of civilian ownership of armour was brought up, at least in the papers.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/armour...-hill-1.186569
In recent years, several provinces, at the request of police, banned body armour and armoured vehicles from civilian ownership without acquiring a permit from the province ($$). The aim was more towards the gang members who the police envisioneVd were armour plating the insides of the doors to their SUVs, but the law would have caught collectors as well. It was only through Gordon Falk's efforts here in Manitoba that we have an exception for historic military vehicles, but that exemption only extends to the owner and not to someone you loan the vehicle to.

Personally, I believe the government has controlled movement of these vehicles by the price of fuel these days. Having recently got my carrier back on the road, and having to run off a naphtha can until my tanks were ready, I found I got maybe 12 minutes of run-time before the gallon was gone.

[motto (RIP)]

Don't be too sure about always having your boots either. News reports within the last week or so are that a local firm that has supplied boots to the Australian Army for decades has been given the flick and the contract is going off shore. This was reported to be an 'economic' decision.
We have our share of s**t for brains here too.

David

[Dave Newcomb]

And yet; The SWAT team in Payette ID USA was running around in a perfect 113 B [diesel]
at a small MVPA show. As a former 113 driver 66-67, I was thrilled to get in the vehicle. Newc

[rob love]

I still get to driveo a Cdn M113A2 at the museum here in Shilo. After any amount of work on it, I take it for about a 4km run along the old track plan down to range control and back. It always brings a smile on my face, as I drove them for a number of years as an MRT with 2PPCLI and later with 1RCHA. I almost feel guilty getting paid to do this kind of work.