Steering, brake fade

[kevin powles]

Rich, Check your triangular floor mounted brake pivot plates in the drivers compartment, if the mounting holes are elongated / deformed or the plates are thin from corrosion they may be lifting off the floor when you apply the brake and not returning when the brake is not applied. This could also happen if you are using the incorrect pitched countersunk screws to hold them.

Also if your driver compartment floor is thin from corrosion it can warp when applying the brakes. if you suspect this as the floor on a carrier is only about 3mm plate when new you can put a strengthening bar between the outer most triangle brackets on the underside of the carrier.

You can get brake heat also if you are using the wrong kind of brake drum sealing strip material which is to tightly packed in.

let me know what you find after inspection.

kevin.

[RichardT10829]

Floor and mounts all good matey. I am not using any sealing strip so no issues there.

I have noticed that I have the linkage rods front to rear in the outer positions for worn shoes... May need to move them into the inner holes when I re adjust the thing.

Wouldn't care she drives like a champ, and everyone on the garage forecourt stopped and stared for ages as I fuelled her up "pay at the pump" I didn't even have to get out the carrier !

[kevin powles]

Rich, yes move the linkages, also get a sealing strip in there, keeps the water out, check the drain hole is clear on the back plate first.

Yes plenty of admirers I bet.

Kevin.

[chris vickery]

Richard
You put oversized linings on to make up for over spec drums correct?
My take on this is that your brakes are adjusted out too far causing drag and overheating of the drums to a point where you have brake fade as the shoes no longer contact the drum as it has grown in diameter.
Perhaps your drums are really too far out of spec or simply remove some excess brake lining

[motto (RIP)]

The shoes will be in contact with the drum same as normal during fade. What causes the fade is a dramatic change in the coefficient of friction as the surface of the lining alters characteristics under extreme heat. That's why they have the burnt look about them. Contact area looks good.
I do believe you are onto the problem with the linkage/cam adjustment.

David

[Michael R.]

When Richie said his machine stopped on the 1st through 2nd gear change it made me think the brake shoes are not backed off sufficiently from the initial adjustment procedure. Although the good book instructs to back off the adjuster cone four clicks from the 80 lb torque used when setting up the linkage, you may find this is not sufficient to prevent excessive brake drag. You must adjust the number of turns in order to acquire the brake being full on when the steering wheel is rotated to 162-168. HOWEVER, see the bottom of page 71 in the AOP instructions.

Remember Richie is not using asbestos linings as called for in the original manuals. Some new ground being covered here. The drums should be able to turn by hand without binding, somewhere along the way there is a comment about slight drag.

The parking brake should be full on at four stops on the ratchet. That could give an indication of how much brake pedal movement can be expected.

Leaving the track off, you can check for drag once you have dialed out the four clicks. Using all caution to prevent your fingers being caught by the scraper or scraper bracket, turn the drum by hand. Have someone operate the steering and brake to see that the shoes are properly expanding while you turn each drum by hand, but also retracting when the steering or brake is released...

The issue of the shoes not retracting was partially addressed with the Windsor carrier steering, where the long rods are fitted in the forward compartment with strong coil style return springs.



Points that should not be dismissed:
The British manual and Canadian manual show different ways to adjust the steering linkage. I believe Lynn mentioned a benefit in reading both manuals.

plungers properly handed and lubricated. It is quite easy to miss this requirement, as they will assemble without any indication of error.
the ability of the actuator housings to float,
long rod clevis installed on inside hole Which is inconsistent with the AOP manual ...


A common fault on the Canadian Ross steering box is a worn rocker shaft pin creating end play. As the Ross gear does not allow for the pin to be replaced, not too many current owners are repairing damaged pins or fitting new rocker shafts. Wear on the pin can allow the wheel to rotate a considerable distance left and right before the worm/cam shaft is engaged.



Using the adjuster gauges was helpful for me. Very helpful.
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[Michael R.]

UC-F1 pages E1-E5

[Michael R.]

UC-F1 pages G1-G5 of six

[Michael R.]

UC-F1 page G6 plus four from the AOP manual

[Petr Brezina]

Richie, I know that this thread is very old, but how did you fix problem with the fading brakes and steering eventualy? Im stuggling with similar issue, still havent found the root cause, everything seems to be OK, but its not, steering is not effective enough.
Michael R - as mentioned bellow, inside hole should be used also on british carriers (I followed AOP manual and used outer hole)? Whats the benefit? I guess better leverage ratio = more pressure applied on the brake pads?

Originally Posted by Michael R.

long rod clevis installed on inside hole Which is inconsistent with the AOP manual ...

Thank you gents

[RichardT10829]

Hey bud, did you use the setting tools to adjust your rod lengths ?

Best advice I can give as an opener is to break the tracks so you can move the drums and feel for any binding etc.

[Petr Brezina]

Hi Richie, yes I did use these tools, ale obeyed the manual, all was properly set up - however I had exactly the same symptoms as you - after few turns and kilometres brakes faded out and I was almost unable to steer. Drums were hot as well.
Last weekend we took out drums and again, everything looked fine, no oil on linings, brake mechanism working ok. I re-set it, drums are perfectly free untill 90°, fully applied at 160°, adjusters set to 4 clicks. However after this allignment brakes are "weak", Im not able to make skid turn, drum is not completely blocked. My lining are not genuine, sometime in the past they were replaced. They are not wowen but from some new rigid brake material, current thickness is about 6-7mm, which is less than wowen originals (about 10mm). However they are contacting the drums on the all surface.
As you were stuggling with the same issue Im wondering how you finally fixed it - maybe it could help me to. Thanks