One of Ours?

[rob love]

From Wikopedia comes this history of the "loaned" vehicles. Apparently part of the reason for the term "loan" was to get around the US ITAR restrictions.

In June 2005, the Canadian government announced plans to loan 105 AVGPs (100 Grizzlys and 5 Huskys) to African peacekeepers in the Darfur region of Sudan.[12][13] The AVGP was considered sufficiently modern to be useful in this low-intensity conflict. Canada planned to arrange for civilian contractors to maintain these vehicles. As the vehicles contained some U.S.-manufactured or licensed parts, U.S. permission would be required to loan the vehicles. Initially, the vehicles were to be shipped without their Cadillac-Gage turrets. The vehicles arrived in Senegal in the late summer of 2005.[14][15]
The Sudanese government required various kinds of assurances before they would allow peacekeepers to use the vehicles in Sudan. On November 18, 2005 the vehicles started arriving in Sudan, in white livery, with their turrets.[16] The loan of vehicles for peace-keeping service in Sudan was originally for one year.[14][15]
However, the loan was extended, and transferred from the African Union to the United Nations. According to Amnesty International the soldiers who used the loaned vehicles served in Sudan for too short a term to be properly trained, and become experienced. One of the vehicles was destroyed by a rocket-propelled grenade.[14] A second vehicle was damaged when it rammed a more heavily armed, but unarmored Technical vehicle.
Uruguay

In 2008, the Uruguayan Army bought 44 surplus Cougars from the Canadian Army.[17][18] They were rebuilt without the turret by the Chilean MOWAG-Piranha builder FAMAE, as they will act as armoured personnel carriers for the UN deployment in the Republic of Congo (MONUC), and domestically.
In 2009 Uruguay bought 98 Grizzlys and 5 Huskys that were on loan with the AMIS/UNAMID mission in Darfu

[Frank v R]

speaking of "LOAN" did the US get any paperwork for the vehicles now operated by those OTHER people , ITAR at work, I was sure that's why there was ITAR,

[45jim]

The only parts of the AVGP fleet that fall under ITAR control are the US sourced Grizzly turrets. The remainder of the fleet have no US controlled items. Canada could have sent a request to the US State Department to have the items transferred to the UN, if approved then its no longer Canada's problem as the UN would be responsible. The US could also release all interest in those items and thereby allow Canada to do what it wished with them.

Its just easier to scrap them like the M113, Hercules and other not very valuable US sourced product. Too much hassle for little return.

[rob love]

Not just hassle, but very few customers are lined up for the older stuff. In the meantime, it costs something to store it and keep it in preservation, all the while the equipment just keeps getting older and in a poorer state.

We had our M113s, C1 howitzers and AVGPs up for sale for quite some time through a re-marketer. Not many takers in the end.

Customers can be quite picky, even when it comes to freebies. Wikopedia reports that the recipients of the AVGPs were not happy with their maintainability. Even in Afghanistan, the Afghan military returned our 2500 (IIRC) "foreign aid" C7 rifles.

[Scott Bentley]

Originally Posted by rob love

Customers can be quite picky, even when it comes to freebies. Wikopedia reports that the recipients of the AVGPs were not happy with their maintainability. Even in Afghanistan, the Afghan military returned our 2500 (IIRC) "foreign aid" C7 rifles.

Add to that the Afghan's refusal to take our leftover Iltis' without huge support concessions on our part. The west would have been better serving the ANA by outfitting them in newer AKM's and Hilux Pickups, rather than M16s and Ford Rangers.

You really hit the salient point here Rob. Especially when it comes the Armoured Vehicles. I think the reason ex-Soviet eqpt is so popular in these developing countries is due to its ability to be maintained on a shoe string by people with little to no training.

[rob love]

Part of it may be our fault too. We say we are going to contribute X milliion dollars, then try and give them our older crap at full book value to account for the donation.

Would anyone here pay $26,000 (original book value) for a slightly worn out Iltis?

[chris vickery]

On that note Rob, why would anyone pay $500 for one either???