Restoration of Hull 731- Carrier, MG (Aust) Mortar Carrying

[Tony Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Mike Cecil

When the unit was posted to join 23 Inf Bde, they were allocated the unit sign of 53 on a red background, as per NT Force GS Instruction dated 15 December 1942.....Why 53 on red? Hell, I don't know: some officer in higher HQ said so, that's why!

I think we can make sense of it Mike. It seems there were two separate units formed from 10 and 48 Inf Bns:

1. E Coy, 48 Inf Bn joined 19 MG Regt in late '42, converting them to 19 MG Bn within 23 Inf Bde. Unit sign for MG Bn at that time was 53 on Red, which would seem to explain the December '42 instruction. Vehicle marking system changed in January '43, the new unit sign for NT Force MG Bn being 35 on Red. These Jan '43 instructions also introduced NT Force formation sign (Buffalo on Boomerang) which I assume would be present on all vehicles by March. The earliest appearance in photos I can actually date is 15 March.

2. 10/48 Inf Bn joined 3 Inf Bde in late '42, then joined 23 Inf Bde in March '43. As the last to arrive their unit sign should be 77 on Brown as you say.

Not sure what this means for Darrin's carrier but hopefully it adds to the picture. Info below reproduced from Australia's Forgotten Army Volume 2:

img209 - Copy.jpg

img210 - Copy.jpg

[Mike Cecil]

Tony, thank you! Now I see where I blundered!

As at 15 Dec 1942 10/48 Inf Bn were part of 3 Inf Bde (not 23 Inf Bde: my misinterpretation of the original instructions. To be fair, they are pretty badly presented.). 3 Inf Bde were the senior Brigade at that time, consisting of:
27 Inf Bn Veh sign 50
43 Inf Bn, veh sign 99
10/48 Inf Bn, veh sign 53

all of which had a red background. (E Coy is no longer relevant to the 10/48 markings story, as they had transferred to 19 MG Regt.)

The battalions in 23 Inf Bde at that time had a green background (7, 8 and 2/4 Pnr Bn) and 19 Inf Bde had a brown background (2/4, 2/8, 23/21 Bns).

When 10/48 Inf Bn was moved to 23 Inf Bde, they were allotted the unit sign 93 on a Green background, as per NT Force GS Instruction 37 of 6 April 1943.

So:
10/48 Bn Dec 42 to March 43: 53 on red. (part of 3 Inf Bde).
10/48 Bn March 43 till Sept 43: 93 on green (part of 23 Inf Bde until end Sept, then became part of 2 Inf Bde, then in July 1944, moved to 12 Aust Inf Bde)

Formation sign: Buffalo on boomerang from Jan 43 onwards.

Thank you.... I think we have it sorted!

Pity Graham Mck-Smith only produced the two volumes, they are excellent references. His original intention was to produce volumes to cover the entire mainland, but I've not seen anymore than V1&2: have you?

Mike

[Tony Wheeler]

Thanks for the explanation Mike. I'm always in the dark concerning late '42 unit serials, as the relevant instructions found in Taubert's work appear to be incomplete. Specifically, those relating to the new numbering system introduced in March '42:

SM 5849 of 30 March '42 instructs that: "AMF and AIF in Australia will adopt a new series of Unit serial numbers......Appendix "C" to SM 3457 will be destroyed and Appendix "A" to this instruction will be substituted." However, when I look at Appendix "A", which is indeed titled "Standard Unit Numbers for Inf. Divs.", I find it lists no numbers whatsoever, only background colours. Do you happen to have the applicable numbers Mike?

I agree with you concerning Graham McK Smith's work. I bought Volume 2 some time ago while researching my NT Force FGT8 provenance, and found it extremely comprehensive and immediately intelligible, even to my untrained mind. I particularly like the monthly location lists, which enable you to see at a glance exactly when each unit arrived and departed NT Force, as well as their precise movements within NT Force. As such it's an extremely useful ready reference, with further detail concerning movements and activities provided in the text. However it's more than just a research reference - I find it provides an excellent overall appreciation of WWII in the Northern Territory, by virtue of well structured chapters summarizing each stage of deployment, and explaining the policy and objectives behind them, all aimed at resisting the expected Japanese invasion. I'd very much like to read something similar on the Eastern States, but as you say Mike it appears he never completed the series. Which is perhaps not surprising, given his mention of 14 years researching Volume 2 alone! I can well believe that, given the breadth and detail found within. If anyone reading this thread is interested I have a spare copy available.

[Mike Cecil]

Tony,

Short answer is no, I don't: I suspect we sourced the same copy of SM5849. All I have for most of 1943 are unit and formation instructions which provide only unit-specific data, such as that for 10/48 Inf Bn mentioned above, and spread across a variety of dates throughout 1943 and early 1944 until the change to the two-tiered unit sign in August 44.

Mike

[Tony Wheeler]

Thanks Mike, I figured that was the case but thought it worth asking anyway. I note Taubert's introductory remarks: "Note should be made of the fact that during certain periods information on specific unit numbering does not exist (Part 2 of this manual). The reasons for this are many...."

[Darrin Wright]

Thanks guys for the detailed info on unit markings. Confusing now and it would have been just as confusing back in 1943. Some unit commanders would have been quick or slow to apply these changes and also depending on stores etc available at the time. So there would have been any number of vehicles sporting different unit markings during those busy days in and around Darwin.

My vehicle will be correct for Dec 42 to Mar 43 and I am happy with that as it ties in with the unit diary that I have for that time period.

From info gained in the 3" Mortar thread I have decided that the likelihood of ever finding a Mk1 base plate and then being able to purchase it would be quite remote. I have been following prices on mortar items and they are a little high to extreme. If and when the items come up.

So with that in mind, what does one do?

Well I decided to scale a replica baseplate from the pics on MLU and the mounting brackets in my hull.
So for less than $100 (and that includes buying the electric jigsaw cutter) I purchased 12mm ply, dowel wood and some wood screws and cut and assembled a baseplate. I then used automotive spray putty to fill in the wood grain and gaps; and when dry, a good heavy brushed coat of green left over from my Dodge restoration.

It has now dried and is mounted in the stowed position in the hull.

This was about 6hr of work to complete.

Being wood, it is quite light and does not pose a danger to my mortar crew (who are currently aged 12 & 14).

I think next I will try my hand at making a Vickers MG as I have the AutoCAD plans from Ebay. Not sure if I should go with a wooden or laser cut steel body?

[Darrin Wright]

Also in the last few days I have purchased a Mortar aiming post, been to Wangaratta and collected the items and unseized the centre hinge.
I think this was a black & white post from the remains of the paint left on it. Made in 1941.
Not sure how these would have been stowed as there are no brackets that are identifiable for this role, perhaps loose or strapped in/on the hull. I see on Colin's Mortar Carrier they have specific brackets and a location.

I also followed up on some leads to other BGC and items and today went and collected track and wheels from a diary farmer near home. The track had been used to weigh down a plough and the wheels were on a home made trailer that is now off to the scrap.
Just it time but 5 years too late, as they had 2-3 BGC, engines, track and other spares to keep them running. Unfortunately all gone now, but I managed to get the last items for a trade in red wine.