11 Set stuff

[cletrac (RIP)]

Ron, if you look at the left picture, the door is about 1/4 as thick as the whole thing.

[Ron Pier]

The only sense of perspective I'm getting, is the rolled edge on the right hand door where it meets the left door in the middle. I just can't bring myself to see that as 1". Or am I missing something. Ron

[Chris Suslowicz]

Originally Posted by cletrac

Chris, you're right but did they have both those kinds in the late 30s? lol By the mid 40s plastic had advanced by leaps and bounds!
I got one switch mounted today. When I'm done and paint stuff black it'll look the same whether plastic or metal.
I've been pondering the construction of the doors. In our picture of them it almost looks like the edge of the left door is bent funny but I'm not sure. The light is coming from the right so the black line you see has to be the gap between the doors.
I'm going to make the doors out of 14 or 16 gauge. They wouldn't be heavier or they wouldn't need the edges folded back that inch or so. That open catch hangs down over an inch so it has to be mounted an inch and a quarter or so back from the face of the closed door. That makes the door an inch thick. The doors will look like a shallow box.The doors don't overlap the unit's sides or they would tangle with the hool up cables.

They had bakelite (phenol-formaldehyde + various fillers) plus all its derivatives (Paxolin - synthetic resin bonded paper, and Tufnol - synthetic resin bonded fibre) and various other engineering grade plastics in the 1930s - remember that telephones were no longer made of wood!

As for the doors: STOP!

They will be thin sheet steel with a folded edge of 1/4" maximum to provide stiffness and enough overlap when closed to exclude dust. The closing edge of one door will have a step rolled/pressed into it so that it overlaps the other door when closed. The securing clips are a three part construction - a bracket that is spot-welded (or soldered/brazed) to the case, an thick wire loop that acts as a hinge, and a shaped spring brass clip.

I'll get the camera, some spare valve/spare parts cases and a Switchboard UC 10-line out in a bit for some typical construction details.

Chris.

[Ron Pier]

Yes please Chris. Any clues would be appreciated. If you have anything like the spring clips going spare, I'd be happy to buy them....Or borrow to get some copied. Ron

[Chris Suslowicz]

Originally Posted by Ron Pier

Yes please Chris. Any clues would be appreciated. If you have anything like the spring clips going spare, I'd be happy to buy them....Or borrow to get some copied. Ron

Bah! Battery has expired in the digital caliper, and I have to go out in a bit. Meanwhile, here's a spare valve case. The clip is actually a two part brass hinge, fixed to the case with a couple of rivets. The clip is 7/8" wide and the top part is 1.1/4" or thereabouts. Need to get some batteries!

Chris.

[cletrac (RIP)]

Those look like the right clips.
I printed an inverted image of the unit and drew in where it looked like the folds are on the doors. The top fold on the right door is about 3/4" wide and the bottom and center folds about 1/4" with none showing on the hinge side. If they overlap the body of the unit this makes sense. The top is wider for dust protection, the hinge side can't have a fold, and the other two for strength. A quarter inch overlap on the bottom wouldn't get to the wires to cause problems.
The left door in Ron's pictures shows a line about a half inch on from the center edge. That could be the step Chris referred to. So maybe 20 or 22 gauge like car tin? I guess I'm talking old car tin!

[cletrac (RIP)]

The panel that the switchboard bolts to on the 8cwt CMP is called the radio instrument panel. They also mention the bracket-charging board-2nd type but no picture in the special patterns bodies book. I wonder what the two types were.
I went through all my pictures and found these showing different views of the panel. My box has the holes pictured for the mounting brackets shown. I measured the bolt spacing then did the picture sizing thing and came up with it being 40" x 12.5" and the mounting lug is 25" in from the left of the picture. The left bracket goes on just to the right of the fender ledge.
The brackets bolt to the box then angle back a couple inches before bending straight up again.
I'm not sure how the brackets are made. The part on the box has the flat face facing front and the part on the panel has it facing back. Any ideas?
They made the panel have that space between it and the locker so the canvas cover could go in the gap down to the twist buttons on the box.

[Ron Pier]

Well that is different to the British versions. The canvas is fixed with turn buckles around the edge of the box and the switchboard is mounted directly to the box/headboard.
Here is a shot that shows the three fixings and earth strap. Strangely in those other pictures of mine, the bottom bolt is absent?
Also I'm guessing the two top fixings must be outside the switchboard cabinet. Can I just see the left hand fixing in one of the pictures?

And I've started by ordering 4 strap hinges off ebay, So cheap and free deliver, that it's not worth visiting B&Q! I've scaled the hinges at 4".
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/200906367104?ru=

I'll wait for these to arrive before I start pestering my local fabrication firm for off cuts. Ron

[cletrac (RIP)]

Ron,
Those hinges look the same as the ones I bought.
The Morris box is quite a bit smaller than the CMP one. The CMPs put the second set of batteries to the right of the radio with the remotes and stuff. They also have those lockers built onto the front of the box. What are those two units clamped down behind the set on the Morris?
With the doors not being as thick as I thought the sides of the panel box should be 4" wide instead of 3". Also the panel should be mounted 1" down in the box instead of 3/4". On mine the terminals will touch the doors. If you decide the panel was made of plastic use 3/8" plywood and plasticize it with urethane and mount it a bit lower to allow for the different thickness.
I straightened up the printing on the doors and made the image the proper size so you can print it out then cut out the lettering to have a stencil.
Those top bolts in your picture are too close together to be on the sides of the unit. They look like they'll be behind the panel. Quite a few of the CMP body pics don't show that bottom mounting lug hole either. Maybe it's a first or second version thing?

[Ron Pier]

Yep I have decided on 4" sides and just ordered some steel to be cut to size.
I've no idea what that is behind the set? Perhaps Mike will know. Part of the enjoyment for me, is the research and fathoming out what is what. Ron

[Chris Suslowicz]

Originally Posted by cletrac

Ron,
Those hinges look the same as the ones I bought.
The Morris box is quite a bit smaller than the CMP one. The CMPs put the second set of batteries to the right of the radio with the remotes and stuff. They also have those lockers built onto the front of the box. What are those two units clamped down behind the set on the Morris?

Interesting! They look very much like a pair of the "Static Battery Boxes" used with the Wireless Set No.18. This was a moulded bakelite case that took a selection of dry cells and batteries (2 x 60 volt, 3 x 12 volt (making 156 volts tapped at 12V for HT and grid bias) and either 2 x 1.5 volt "Cells Dry, O" in series, or 8 "Cells, Dry, X" in series parallel to provide 3 volts for the valve filaments. This pack had a 50 hour usable life. I'm fairly certain that's what they are, as the photo shows the case screws on the front and the web carrying strap on the side. I have the bottom half of two of these cases (stripped) - they were emptied out, the lids and fittings discarded, and a drawer knob attached for use as a parts storage system. :-(> I want a complete one for my 18 set, but no luck so far.

Chris.

[cletrac (RIP)]

Sorry Chris but I meant the truck box.
Like the whole body on the truck that everything is mounted in!
From the cab to the endgate.

[Chris Suslowicz]

Originally Posted by cletrac

Sorry Chris but I meant the truck box.

Er, which truck box?

The two square cases directly behind the WS11 in that photo (at top right) are almost certainly WS18 static battery boxes. The 4 wooden-cased accumulators clamped to the floor in front of the set are for the WS11. I don't see anything else you could be referring to in that photograph?

Chris.

[Mike Kelly]

Chris is correct

The WS 11 uk version had provision for running from dry batteries . Those are batteries behind the set . The UK manual mentions the dry batteries . The Aust. set manual does nor list dry batteries so they must have dropped the option .

Would any of those dry batteries have survived ?

BTW the Morris PU had a auxillary generator for charging the wireless batteries, the gene was mounted next to the gearbox, driven by a PTO and pulley .The Canadian setup used the chorehorse .

I have never seen a pic of the charging setup in a Canadian 8 cwt , it would have been interesting as the British units were issued with the Canadian made 8 cwt wireless vehicles

[cletrac (RIP)]

Any pics of the F8 or C8 don't have any of the radio equipment installed. That one pic with the place for the grounding lug for the switchboard is all I have to go by, but it's enough I think.
What set is this aerial mount for? The clamp on top has quite an 11 set look to it. The second image is the 19 set base and this one looks like an earlier version somehow.

[Ron Pier]

OK some confusion about boxes here. I realise now that the Box David is referring to is actually the storage box for antenna and chorehorse etc that the switchboard is mounted too.
Thanks Chris/Mike for the dry cell info. I doubt I'll bother looking for any!

And Mike is right about the other box next to the switchboard, to stow the regulator in. Currently, mine is erroneously inside my dummy switchboard cabinet and will get changed.

David that is a standard WS19 (and others) aerial base. The 11 set base is something far more complicated and elaborate for something like 3/4"? rods.
Again I have a home made version on my PU. There were different variations, the short squat one was fitted to carriers etc. Ron

[Mike Kelly]

Originally Posted by Ron Pier

OK some confusion about boxes here. I realise now that the Box David is referring to is actually the storage box for antenna and chorehorse etc that the switchboard is mounted too.
Thanks Chris/Mike for the dry cell info. I doubt I'll bother looking for any!

And Mike is right about the other box next to the switchboard, to stow the regulator in. Currently, mine is erroneously inside my dummy switchboard cabinet and will get changed.

David that is a standard WS19 (and others) aerial base. The 11 set base is something far more complicated and elaborate for something like 3/4"? rods.
Again I have a home made version on my PU. There were different variations, the short squat one was fitted to carriers etc. Ron

Ron

You have left the light on , your battery will be flat in no time

The base on the far right. I have one of those, I think its a ground base , sits on a spike and accepts the 5/8" rods .

With the 11 set - they used either 5/8" or 7/8" rods . The thin whip type antenna I think was issued with 19 sets

[cletrac (RIP)]

I don't see how you guys can get so confused about something so simple.
Maybe it comes from living on that little island LOL
The radio operators seats bolt to the floor of the truck box.
Clear as mud now?????

[Ron Pier]

My Wireless operator Private Spoons is always putting the light on. He gets scared in the dark.

Yes Mike I couldn't remember the rod sizes although I knew there are 2 sizes. My aerial base is cast in aluminium. I used one of the 'Golf Bag' ground station mushrooms, machined to fit inside the ally base. I know the mushroom is not quite as wide as it should be for a vehicle mount, but at least it has the correct fitting on top. The toothed base plate came from one of the Australian guys from the Carrier forum. I got the top part cast and machined here, which was scaled up from the limited pictures around of the MK11 version. The whole of the frame that it's mounted on was fabricated by myself from a road work sign that the workers left laying in our road after it was resurfaced. Ron

[Mike Kelly]

Originally Posted by Ron Pier

My Wireless operator Private Spoons is always putting the light on. He gets scared in the dark.

Yes Mike I couldn't remember the rod sizes although I knew there are 2 sizes. My aerial base is cast in aluminium. I used one of the 'Golf Bag' ground station mushrooms, machined to fit inside the ally base. I know the mushroom is not quite as wide as it should be for a vehicle mount, but at least it has the correct fitting on top. The toothed base plate came from one of the Australian guys from the Carrier forum. I got the top part cast and machined here, which was scaled up from the limited pictures around of the MK11 version. The whole of the frame that it's mounted on was fabricated by myself from a road work sign that the workers left laying in our road after it was resurfaced. Ron

It looks the part Ron. Who is going to criticize you if it isn't perfect , not me .
Virtually none of the originals have survived . Rory made a mock up .

Do you have the auxillary generator running off the gearbox ? I do have the PTO unit and the pulley but not the generator . You pull a lever on the cab floor I think ??

[Mike Kelly]

Originally Posted by cletrac

I don't see how you guys can get so confused about something so simple.
Maybe it comes from living on that little island LOL
The radio operators seats bolt to the floor of the truck box.
Clear as mud now?????

Little Island

There is also a set on the cab roof, for aircraft spotting .

[Ron Pier]

Originally Posted by cletrac

I don't see how you guys can get so confused about something so simple.
Maybe it comes from living on that little island LOL
The radio operators seats bolt to the floor of the truck box.
Clear as mud now?????

Steady on David. Me and Chris live on the tiny little Mother island up here opposite the North coast of France. My house is only about 70 miles from the nearest point of the D Day beaches.

What you refer to as "The Box" We would call "The Body". (Hood/Bonnet, Trunk/Boot, Windsheid/Windscreen, Tomaydo/Tomato Etc) Ron

[cletrac (RIP)]

And here I thought you guys living over there would naturally speak English!!!! LOL

[Ron Pier]

Originally Posted by Mike Kelly

Do you have the auxillary generator running off the gearbox ? I do have the PTO unit and the pulley but not the generator . You pull a lever on the cab floor I think ??

No Mike. My PTO actually drives a compressor (tyre pump) and I have the rubber hose that fits onto it that is long enough to reach all the tyres. I think I have a pulley PTO somewhere. Which is the type that your PU would have. My own PU would have had a direct drive to the auxiliary genny. And yes the lever comes up through the floor near the gear stick* (*gear shift for the American continent). Ron

[Mike Kelly]

This is the auxillary generator PTO setup on my PU 8 cwt . I am not sure where the generator actually mounts but I do have a drawing of the setup somewhere .

You are looking at 70 years of grime and dirt . A little bit of the original brunswick green on the gearbox .

This PU is a FFW version , it has the little floor cutout in the body floor for the wireless operators feet and the holes for the wireless set wooden cabinet mount

[Ron Pier]

Mike, somewhere I have also seen the mounting position for your PU genny. On the underside of the floor or the chassis and with a 'V' belt drive.

My PU also has the special panel for Private Spoon's Boots. But there was nothing of any other FFW fittings when I got the truck. It had been used as a garage recovery vehicle with crane jib fitted from sometime after it's de-mob in 1946. I have made the whole FFW interior myself. Ron

[Chris Suslowicz]

Originally Posted by cletrac

What set is this aerial mount for? The clamp on top has quite an 11 set look to it. The second image is the 19 set base and this one looks like an earlier version somehow.

Top pic is Aerial Base No.10 Mk.2 - general purpose HF aerial base for 'F' rods.

Bottom pic is Aerial Base No.8 - original base for the WS19 that was replaced by the No.10 Mk.1 and then the No.10 Mk.2

U.S. and Canadian manufactured sets were still being supplied with Base No.8 when WW2 ended. They are not much good for use on the move because the aerial rod flexing causes the retaining spring to get metal fatigue and either stretch or break, releasing the grip of the base on the rod, which can then fall out and be lost. Hence the No.10 with a butterfly nut clamp. The No.10 Mk.1 has a convex-shaped rubber insulator which met the metal mounting plate at a sharp angle and this was not good for the bond strength. Also it had a two part riveted retaining clamp, as with the Aerial Base No.11 and was complicated to make. The No.10 Mk.2 had the pressed steel clamp with the through bolt that you see (and a built-in terminal for attaching feeder cables for some installations or the spade-ended Aerial, 100-ft, No.5) and the shape of the rubber was modified to be concave where it met the steel plate for better bond strength.

The mounting bracket is for a Jeep, according to the eBay seller. They may be right.

Chris.

[Chris Suslowicz]

Originally Posted by Ron Pier

...there was nothing of any other FFW fittings when I got the truck. It had been used as a garage recovery vehicle with crane jib fitted from sometime after it's de-mob in 1946. I have made the whole FFW interior myself. Ron

It's beautifully done.

Meanwhile, I have got some more batteries for the digital caliper, and will rummage through all the spare valve cases for a "got at" one. If I can find one with the correct catch and the innards removed, I'll take the catch off so you can use it for a pattern. There is a pressed out ridge on the lid of the tin that the catch rides over - you could file a bit of brass rod and solder that to the door if necessary.

I've also found some bits of Line kit (from a radio rally) including one terminal panel for a Teleprinter Terminal Unit that is the same black plastic with engraved lettering as the charging switchboards were made of.

Chris.

[Ron Pier]

Great stuff Chris. I'll PM you my email address for future contact. Ron

[cletrac (RIP)]

I bought some aerial stuff for the 11 set. I didn't get those guy ropes as I already have two sets off the 20 foot telescoping Canadian aerial and they're identical.