15-CWT, 2K1, WIRE 5 Body Details

[David Dunlop]

To help focus information specific to the actual design/construction of this delightful 15-cwt truck body, I have started this thread and our trusty moderators can hopefully move some pre-existing items from another thread to this location.

A number of these particular truck bodies have survived around the world but often have seen so many modifications during their lifetimes, it is difficult for a restorer to get a good handle on what this truck body actually looked like rolling out the doors at Wilson Truck Body brand new.

David

[Robert Bergeron]

Gents,

I have had very nice conversations with fellow enthousiasts on the content of the box. Members like Gord Falk, Jon Skagfeld and Bruce Parker have all pitched in.



But to make a long story short , i would like the ''box '' to be historicly correct .

There are two versions to this story , so it seems : One 2K1 box version with two Johnson Chorehorses each producing 12 V. and another with a Onan 110 V generator on the bottom of the ''fridge '' or generator compatment and a Chorehorse producing 12 V .on the middle shelf. The one with the Onan would be for the High Power version of the 19 Wireless radio and the other for the regular 19 or two of them..

Apart from the radios and the generators , there are antennae, masts, headsets , wire , remote radios telephones and galore Signals equipment.

My guess is that inside the ''fridge'' compatment the upper shelf was occupied with spare parts and tools for the generators .

Does anyone have experience with this truck or knowledge of its use on this forum ? I know it's has been a long time since 1944 , but ... never know because they were used post-war..

Any camouflage nets , other special equipment ? Where for example did the map table fitted to the front outside of the box was to go in case of need ?

Was a penthouse tent really fitted to the outside ? With the tent fitted , did it ever saw use as a command post ? I have seen that use with CUCV trucks at company and Battalion level.

What was the routine around the operation of this unit ?

Anyone ?

Thanks, cheers .





Robert

[David Dunlop]

Robert.

Been watching your restoration with interest. An extremely fascinating CMP to restore, but in it's own way, very complex to do correctly when you consider all the specialized equipment needed to kit it out. I started one back in the early 1980,s and it took me seven years just to find all the bits I needed. Ended up three parts short before selling the lot to Don Perry in Edmonton and he was able to complete a fantastic restoration.

Your info is correct regarding two possible versions of this vehicle. Wilson Truck built all the bodies to a standard that the Army could kit out either with two chore horses (lower fixed and upper portable), or with one chore horse in the upper portable position and the lower spot occupied by a fixed 110 volt Onan. Somewhere in my files I have the model for the Onan. The dual chore horse setup was by far the most common configuration. Hense, when you look at the wiring diagram inside the lid of the panel box on the upper front right wall, the Onan circuitry is outlined with a dashed line as being optional. The 110 cable from the generator compartment to the front right corner of the wireless desk was there, but not used if dual chore horses were in use.

If the Onan was installed, the layout of its exhaust came very close to some of the internal wiring inside the gen box. To protect this wiring, a curved metal shroud came with the Onan, along with a spring loaded storage bracket and a small white warning decal with a red border and printing that explained how the shroud was to be installed when the Onan was operating. This bracket was mounted on the side of the gen box, in the upper right corner above the mounts for the two rifles.

As for the desk assembly. It was stored, as you noted in the brackets at the front end of the box. In use, it mounted on the left side of the body, below the Cipher Clerks window. Two large holes support the round hooks on the rear end of the desk frame and above them are a set of keyholes the side chains for the desk hook into. By the way, the Cipher Clerks window screen has a spring loaded mailbox flap fastened to the middle of it. This allows the Cipher Clerk to receive outgoing messages and deliver incoming messages when the penthouses on either side of the body are in use. Saves time running back and forth. The Cipher Clerks window is the left side rear.

By the way, when painting the interior, all of the inside of the gen box is the same colour as the exterior of the vehicle, including the two safety screens. The inside of the rear door is also the same colour as the exterior (as are the two blackout switches for the rear door and the gen box door). Lastly, all window frames inside, including the blackout curtain assemblies are also the exterior colour. The blackout curtain fabric is black.

Hope this helps a bit. Keep up the good work.

David

[Robert Bergeron]

Thank- you very much David, very helpfull advice and knowledge.

Robert

[David Dunlop]

These things can be a bit of a challenge since the longer the vehicles were in service, the more variations in wireless equipment they were likely to carry and the more different mounts installed.

Originally, with a 19-Set on board, the left side (driver side) chimney mounted the A-Set Mount No. 8. The middle chimney was blank and the right chimney took the B-Set Mount No. 9. This makes perfect sense when you consider the vast majority of these vehicles went overseas. This orientation places the longest aerial closest to the centre of any road the vehicle travels, minimizing problems with any overhanging trees.

The middle chimney which was usually blank, could be used as required to mount the Base Plate, Vehicle Roof from the Antennae, Vertical, 34' Steel Mk I Kit. This plate allowed the 20 ' Mast to be installed on the roof of the wireless box and fully extended to nearly match the fully extended 34 ' mast mounted on the ground. This created a very tall horizontal aerial arrangement.


David

[David Dunlop]

Back in the late 1970's and early 1980's, when I was tracking down missing parts for my own 2K1 Wireless Body, I had the great good fortune of being able to study over 50 examples of this body the local Princess Auto dealer conveniently had sitting about their property and from which they were more than happy to sell off any parts I needed and could remove. Happy Days!!!

One bit of these bodies puzzled me back then, and still puzzles me today, so if anyone can shed some light on it, it would be most appreciated.

On the left side of the body, directly below the rear window (Cypher Clerk's Window), midway up the body, is a small rectangular compartment. The cover has a finger tab on it and hinges down when pulled open. Inside are a pair of heavy duty, threaded, electrical posts with wing nuts, mounted horizontally on a quarter inch thick plate of brown circuit board. If memory serves, a '+' and '-' sign are engraved into the board and filled with white paint beside these two terminals. Clearly, this access is intended to connect an external power supply of some type. The puzzle comes on the inside. On all of these bodies in the Princess yard, not one showed any signs of ever having had anything connected to it on the inside. In fact, this terminal box is totally isolated from any of the 12-Volt or 110-Volt systems inside the body and does not even show up on the body wiring diagram. If something was connected to it on the inside, the connection would be quite close to the Cypher Clerks knees when he was seated at his small table, which could prove rather disturbing, if contact was made.

Has anybody ever found any documentation explaining what equipment this terminal is intend for? One of the Generator Trailers is a possibility, external to the Wireless truck, but what was connected on the inside?

David

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

I think that was for the grounding spike.

Originally Posted by David Dunlop

Back in the late 1970's and early 1980's, when I was tracking down missing parts for my own 2K1 Wireless Body, I had the great good fortune of being able to study over 50 examples of this body the local Princess Auto dealer conveniently had sitting about their property and from which they were more than happy to sell off any parts I needed and could remove. Happy Days!!!

One bit of these bodies puzzled me back then, and still puzzles me today, so if anyone can shed some light on it, it would be most appreciated.

On the left side of the body, directly below the rear window (Cypher Clerk's Window), midway up the body, is a small rectangular compartment. The cover has a finger tab on it and hinges down when pulled open. Inside are a pair of heavy duty, threaded, electrical posts with wing nuts, mounted horizontally on a quarter inch thick plate of brown circuit board. If memory serves, a '+' and '-' sign are engraved into the board and filled with white paint beside these two terminals. Clearly, this access is intended to connect an external power supply of some type. The puzzle comes on the inside. On all of these bodies in the Princess yard, not one showed any signs of ever having had anything connected to it on the inside. In fact, this terminal box is totally isolated from any of the 12-Volt or 110-Volt systems inside the body and does not even show up on the body wiring diagram. If something was connected to it on the inside, the connection would be quite close to the Cypher Clerks knees when he was seated at his small table, which could prove rather disturbing, if contact was made.

Has anybody ever found any documentation explaining what equipment this terminal is intend for? One of the Generator Trailers is a possibility, external to the Wireless truck, but what was connected on the inside?

David

[Robert Bergeron]

Bruce and David,

The connectors look to me like they were meant to power a 19 or other wireless set when it was set up outside the box in the penthouse tent . All you had to do is install a jumper cable from the batteries to the inside terminals.I have seen those connectors wired to the sets of batteries in the box. The Gibeau truck at the CWM and the truck at the Signals Museum in Kingston are set up that way.

Bruce i agree a ground spike would be a great idea especialy when using shortwave freq. and in thunder storms. Anyone else can chime in on that issue ?

Going back to the Onan. David , the shroud you were talking about. In my box the housing for said shroud remnant is present on the outside of the gen compatment just over the rifle mounts..wich could mean my box was set up for the Onan and the High Power version of the 19 . interesting discovery.

So the table goes outside under the Cipher clerk's window .

What is the tube for at the front of the box left side ( passenger ) just beside where the table would be stored ? It's like 5' -6' long and in a vertical plane near the corner ? My hypothesis is that it's for flexible or whip antennae.

Lastly ( for now, it is all the energy i have left for tonight ) , what are those lodgings or housings outside the box just over the rear door ?

Thanks a lot for the help and knowledge.



Robert

[David Dunlop]

Hello Bruce.

Interesting possibility for a grounding connection, though I do not recall this particular fixture making contact with the steel framework of the body at all, just the plywood interior wall.

Robert.

Terminals for feeding 12-Volt to an externally located wireless set makes sense, but I wonder about the logic of going to all the trouble of disconnecting a perfectly operational wireless from it's location on the table inside to grunt it out to a penthouse? Then again, in the Army, what the Sgt wants, he usually gets!

Just a detail regarding the Onan. In addition to the 110 Volt output routed through a dedicated heavy duty armour cable to the 110-Volt plug at the right side corner of the wireless table on the front wall, it also featured a 12-Volt DC feed that served as the fixed wireless battery charging station for the vehicle. This way, the operator still had two charging sets to work with between the wireless battery sets, and the 110 feed for whatever required it.

Not sure about the fittings you mention above the outside of the rear door. Post a pic and we will have a look. The only fittings usually present back there apart from the ladder are the 34 ' Mast brackets behind the ladder, top and bottom, the door catch on the lower section of the door and the door hook on the lower wall just to the left of the rear gen box ventilation hatch that engages the catch.

Oh, and before I forget, yes, the tube mounted along the left front edge of the box holds spare A-Set whip sections, easily accessed by Herbie when he is on the roof of the truck mucking about.


David

[Robert Bergeron]

David,

Fascinating .

So,

1- 20' mast up front top of outside of the box- horizontaly .
2 -34 ' mast verticaly behind the rear LADDER
3- Map/ work / wireless table stored outside the box at the front
4- A-set Antennae / aerial F and G in tube front of body in a vertical plane.

.. heads hurts...

5- Pioneer tools left front outside body ( shovel , pick axe )

6- Onan generator producing 110 V AC AND 12 DC fixed in lower generator compartment and a moveable Chorehorse in the upper position.

7- A shroud for the Onan lodged in a housing on the front of the generating compartment above the two No 4 rifles.

8- A 110 V outlet inside at the front of the box to the right of the radio table.

That is a lot of knowledge for one sitting my friends. Thanks.

Q. What goes on all those little shelves spread out in the box ? They have footman loops and canvas straps either side of them

How about telephone exchanges and remote radio / telephone sets ? . How were they set up ?

Enough for me tonight. Robert out . I am bushed .

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

The exterior map table that hangs off the right side, when not in use, mounts on the forward face of the box on the driver's side. You should see an angle lip on the bottom for it. And I think you're right, the tube is for F and G aerial sections.

[Grant Bowker]

WRT the outside connectors and the idea of a ground spike - why would the terminals be marked + and - ?
To my mind, without any proof of how or why, the +/- markings only make sense for transfer of DC power (either in or out of the body).

[David Dunlop]

Bruce.

The shroud for the Onan was covered on page 2 of RichCam's thread, before Robert suggested we push this detail info to a separate thread. We have asked the Mod to move those posts over here to keep Rich's thread clean for his fascinating restoration project.

Best regards,

David

[Robert Bergeron]

Bruce my friend,

7- Shroud , Onan generator.

David suggested earlier that the Onan generator generated a lot of heat and that a special shroud was needed when in operation so as to not to burn out the wiring wich ran very close. That '' shroud '' would be stored when not in use in a special bracket afixed to the front outside generator cabinet over the rifle brackets.We had discussed earlier you and i in another thread the use of such bracket.

9- Tool compartments under body, front , either side. Q. Were they metal or wood ?

10- Numerous little shelves with footman loops and canvas straps inside box .

Q. What are they for ?

Do we have a consensus that the plus and minus terminals on the left of the box under the cipher clerck's window were for a 12 V DC power source ?

Over to you gents.

[Robert Bergeron]

David,

As for your earlier comment on the exterior 12 VDC on the left side of the box , here is my real life experience concerning that :

When a contemporary ( meaning 1980's - today ) Signals truck is used in the field in a command post position for example , you have a tent or group of tents forming a work station for the Brigade Staff to hang around and do what staff do. I don't want to go into specifics because that is not the subject.

The Signals personnel would workinside the tent , dismount what is dismountaeble in order to be with the Staff in the tent and be close to pass on orders over the net.

A 2K1 box is may be not a Brigade level equipment but at Battalion or even company level i would see the ''penthouse '' house a few officers including a CO or his 2ic with signals personnel. Signal trucks are too small to accomodate so the tent would add space away from the elements.

So it would be logical to have a No 19 set or smaller unit on the table outside the box in the tent.The 12 VDC outlet would supply current from the batteries inside.

The Signals Van of today work pretty much in the same manner.I am not a Signals officer but an end user . I work at Brigade Staff level in those situations.

I hope my hypothesis will help advance the discussion on the subject and that a signals officer or NCO can chime in and correct me if i am wrong.

[David Dunlop]

Robert.

Hope you had a good sleep.

One other detail about the 110-volt system came to mind. The plug mounted up by the wireless table is an almost square steel electrical box with a single round two prong socket centrally fitted in it. Above it, screwed to the front wall is a small brass plate advising the plug is 110-volt only.

With regards to all the shelving, that is still largely a mystery. I do know from seeing all the boxes at Princess Auto, the canvas straps were all originally khaki tan in colour. A few boxes showed OD green replacements, probably done in later military life. The tan often bleach out over time to look white, but not so.

I suspect the large shelving unit to the left of the rear door, held the leather aerial tool bag, the two canvas penthouse assemblies and probably the crew's personal kit. The Chorehorse and Onan tool chests were stored on the top shelf inside the gen box. Spare fuses for the power system were stored in a little compartment inside the power panel. To sort out all the other shelving, I think we would need to find official storage layout info for the wireless box. The only obvious bits are the headset brackets on the front wall above the wireless table and the paper bin over by the Cypher Clerks station.

I need breakfast!

David

[David Dunlop]

Robert

You're awake!!!

The bins under the box either side are standard metal Chev tool bins to hold all the vehicular tools. They look externally the same as Ford bins but the front face of the inside shelves differ between the two, one is straight and the other dips in the middle. Cannot remember which is which at the moment.

Robert.

If you have the bracket for the little Onan Exhaust shroud still mounted, look closely around it, below or to the left, for traces of the Instruction Sticker. As I recall, it was plain white paper with a glue backing, maybe 3 x 5 inches, vertical orientation. There was a red 16th inch border line around the edge and the printing was all red. I believe it actually referenced the Onan Model number installed in these vehicles. I have a slide picture of it from one of the Princess Trucks somewhere, but as Rob Fast can confirm, my photo organizational skills are not the best. If I find it I will definitely post it.

David

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by David Dunlop

To help focus information specific to the actual design/construction of this delightful 15-cwt truck body, I have started this thread and our trusty moderators can hopefully move some pre-existing items from another thread to this location.

Done - please proceed, gentlemen

H.

[David Dunlop]

Ah Hanno.

It's great to be able to sit back and watch a genius at work!

Thank you so mush!


David

[Robert Bergeron]

David,

Here are the two features you were talking about:

1- Cipher clerk window to pass messages outside in the tent were the removeable table would be installed .

2- Starting coil isolation for the wireless truck.

It is so much better with pictures.

[Robert Bergeron]

My friends,

1- Here we see the aerial chimneys and ceilling lights.

2- Here is an interior plan drawn up by our friend Bruce Parker a long time ago .

[David Dunlop]

You are another genius at work here, Robert.

The passthrough still present in the Cypher Clerk's window screen suggests it is probably still the original copper screening. There would have been a spring loaded flap covering it on the outside to keep the weather out. A number of years ago, there was an apartment block here in Winnipeg built in the 1920's and each apartment door was equipped with exactly the same mail box slot assembly. It was torn down about 20 years ago, but very carefully salvaged of all the beautiful woodwork in it. I could not find out where the doors went because it would have been nice to know a source of supply for those mail flaps.

Yes, that is the coil isolation point under the hood. The two holes on the right (vehicle right) held an extension of the coil box that mounted a large filter cap. The coil box would also have it's own cover assembly.

Nice work Bruce did with his sketch. It jogged my memory once again regarding the 110-Volt Onan set up and now it is really starting to puzzle me as to what is so special about that particular configuration for the 2K1.

As I mentioned earlier, the Onan also had a 12-volt feed that I had thought was tapped into the circuitry to cross charge the wireless batteries located on the floor of the box in the front right corner. Not quite so.

I found the Wiring Diagram from inside the lid of the panel box I had duplicated and had a closer look at it to refresh my memory. The 12-volt feed from the Onan actually has it's own dedicated armoured cable line which runs from the bottom of the gen box, along the right side wall/floor line, passing under the 2 x 4 supports for the wireless battery trays and along the front wall/floor line under the wireless table. Once it passes the large grounding strap of the big copper bus bar assembly, it jogs up the wall and ends in a standard elongate electrical connection box. Bruce has it very nicely drawn in. On the floor at that point under the wireless table would have been a bracket holding two Grant Batteries. Those batteries are pretty specialized bits of equipment back in the day, which just adds to my curiosity about the whole Onan setup. What purpose was being met with all this specialized equipment?

Got some time before dinner, so I think I will try scanning in the shielding installation info I found earlier and see if it takes OK.

David