Early CMPs in NW Europe

[Hendrik van Oorspronk]

Originally Posted by Bob Carriere

Why do we see so many cab 12 in 1945 during the liberation of Holland???

Cab 12 had literally been replaced by cab 13 which were available in great quantity. In fact some would say the cab 12 was more or less obsolete when the cab 13 became plentiful.

I can understand the specialized CGT/FGT and special radio trucks but to see many cab 12 GS lorry still being used surprises me. They did have to come from the central depot in England which were full of cab 13 by late 1944.....why ferry over an obsolete GS to the front lines.

Anybody has an opinion??

Curious.

Bob C

Hello Bob, the answer is in this newsreel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiPkYQEoeac

Groeten

Hendrik

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hendrik van Oorspronk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiPkYQEoeac

Interesting! "Canadian Army Newsreel, No. 70 (1945)"

C15TA with unknown trailer:


F15A with roof rack, higher rear canvas and trailer:


Kangaroos in Groningen:


Large hatch M4(105) Sherman, rare in Commonwealth service in NWE:

[Bob Carriere]

That explains the mixture of old and new equipment.....they really poured everything they had........ quite the infusion of supplies and troops.

Four days to load, 24 hours at sea and 5 days of driving across France and Belgium quite the feat....... wonder how many vehicles broke down along the way.... the logistics must have been a night mare...... feeding....fuel....repairs....

Makes a joke of the Liberation of Holland Ceremony in Ottawa next week where they are limiting the number of vehicles due to lack of space at the War Museum..... Ha!!!!

Amazing what could be done in 1945 WITHOUT computers.... by people willing to make the effort.

Bob C

[Alex van de Wetering]

That explains the mixture of old and new equipment.....they really poured everything they had........ quite the infusion of supplies and troops.

Well, I don't think the move of 1st Corps from Italy to Holland is the reason so many Cab12's appear on Dutch liberation pictures....I mean, for the Western part of Holland it could be a good explanation, but plenty cab 12's also appear in pictures taken in the Eastern and North Eastern part of Holland and this was 2nd Corps Territory. Unlike 1st Corps, 2nd did come through Normandy, North-West France, Belgium, Walcheren etc. .....basically along the main supply route.

I tend to think 13cabs weren't that plentiful as we thought....at least not plentiful enough to replace all old CMP's at the same time. I guess frontline units were the first to receive new trucks, but even than cab12 15cwt and 3ton trucks were usefull enough to keep operating them, even though they might have shown their age.

Alex

[Alex van de Wetering]

Here is another, at 5.11

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgiqBwVWcKk

Nice Hendrik! I have seen this picture a number of times, but never spotted the Monkey face....it was always the carrier that had my attention. It seems it has some sort of windshield fixed to the front armour(?)

Attached is the picture from the youtube vid. It's the coloured one...can't find the black and white original at the moment.

Alex

[Hendrik van Oorspronk]

I think we forget 1 important thing, in 1944-45 the cab 11 and 12 were only 2 till 3 years old, so almost new, I don't think any army would throw them away for newer cars and remember, only the cabs are different, the mechanical parts are the same.

Hendrik

[Alex van de Wetering]

Cab 12's in Belgium. Avelgem.

The second picture seems to show a row of 3 Cab12 3 Ton trucks.

source: cegesoma.be

[Alex van de Wetering]

First picture was posted by Stefan Leegwater in the F60H thread. A very rare F60H seen in Ommen 1945.

Second and third pictures are screen grabs from a youtube vid on the liberation of Haarlem 1945 (some great footage and vehicles by the way!).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOtPL6baJLY

Alex

[Alex van de Wetering]

Cab12 FAT in Leeuwarden 1945. Both pictures seem to show the same vehicle

source: https://historischcentrumleeuwarden.nl/

[David Dunlop]

This blend of old and new was probably not unique to the CMP. Wasn't there quite a mix of old and new model carriers in use, at least two models of DUKW and I don't think the Bantam and slat grilled jeeps disappeared as soon as the later model MB and GPW arrived.

The latest vehicles were probably not as critical an issue as one would encounter with aircraft.

David

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Alex van de Wetering

Cab12 FAT in Leeuwarden 1945. Both pictures seem to show the same vehicle

source: https://historischcentrumleeuwarden.nl/

And is it the same one as shown on page 1 of this thread?

H.

[Alex van de Wetering]

And is it the same one as shown on page 1 of this thread?

Hanno; I think it's a different vehicle....the shape of the roofrack and the spare wheel location is different. Of course the wheel could have been relocated, but the top bar of the roofrack attaches to the upper roof panel in one of the pics and on the other FAT the bar attaches to, about halfway, the beetle back.
It could be the second one in the background of the "Groningerstraatweg" picture though......(?)

Alex

[Alex van de Wetering]

30cwt (?) Monkey face Ambulance, Apeldoorn 1945

source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRLn4WKWFHU

Alex

I don't think any army would throw them away for newer cars

This blend of old and new was probably not unique to the CMP

Hendrik, David, I agree.....even though I have no official documents to back it up. I don't think there was a luxery position to replace ALL cab11/12's with cab13's. Maybe the general rule, yes...but there was a shortage of everything, so I would not be surprised if someone turns up with a document stating that (cab 11/12) trucks are to be properly serviced and maintained.....and are only to be replaced by newer trucks if they are completely worn....frontline units coming first if new trucks are available.(?)

I was reading one of Mike Starmers publications on camouflage paints and he mentions a document stating that (SCC2 Brown) vehicles are only to be fully repainted in the "new" SCC15 Olive Drab if absolutely necessary, due to limited supply of SCC15. Vehicles are to be patched where possible. This could well be the same with replacement trucks (?)

[Alex van de Wetering]

Near Belgian-Dutch border 1944, close to Lommel.


source: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...0105069&type=3

[David Dunlop]

Are those Buffalos on trailers in the wide angle shot?


David

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by David Dunlop

Are those Buffalos on trailers in the wide angle shot?

As far as I can see, there are pontoons only.

[David Dunlop]

Thanks, Hanno.

Never seen them at that angle, unassembled before.

David

[maple_leaf_eh]

Originally Posted by Alex van de Wetering

>>>

Hendrik, David, I agree.....even though I have no official documents to back it up. I don't think there was a luxury position to replace ALL cab11/12's with cab13's. Maybe the general rule, yes...but there was a shortage of everything, so I would not be surprised if someone turns up with a document stating that (cab 11/12) trucks are to be properly serviced and maintained.....and are only to be replaced by newer trucks if they are completely worn....frontline units coming first if new trucks are available.(?)
.....

I doubt such a document will surface. Field armies never have enough of what they need and too many of the burdens of well-meaning staff officers. A RCEME veteran acquaintance told how one of the first things they threw out after landing in Normandy was an engine block for some very big truck. Some farmer near Bernier-sur-mer has a lump of cast iron in a filled-in slit trench.

After Desert Storm, I watched US trucks dragging around the most amazing collection of flatbeds, containers and trailers. When the units mobilized, everything old and new in the compounds got loaded.

The war moved fast, the logistics train was struggling to keep up, and the convoys didn't stop coming and shake out until the surrender. (If the staff asked for 30 sheets of plywood and 50 sheets show up, don't look a gift horse in the mouth.) Or if someone behind the fighting echelon found something abandoned or broken down in desert, so be it. Better to have something and not need it, than to leave it behind for the locals or stragglers to steal or use against your own troops. Besides, extras are always useful for trading and reconciling the books.

Contrast that to the retreating Iraqis. Everything they owned was dropped and abandoned. Every cab over engine 6-cylinder truck; every cam' net; every crate of ammunition; every fibreglass copy of the Kevlar helmet.

All of this is to say, if the soldiers can get their hands on working equipment, they will keep it.

[Alex van de Wetering]

Two 15cwt 4x2's in action in Normandy.
Pictures show French volunteer drivers that transported food to Paris. The British army supplied Dodge D15's for this task, and also at least two CMP 15cwt's, so it seems.

source: http://www.manche.fr/archivesDepartementales/

[Alex van de Wetering]

C15A cab 12's in Zutphen, april 6th 1945. Judging from the position of the star on the roof, there are at least two different Monkey faces in this footage, maybe even three.

The pictures are grabs from this footage

First two grabs show the same truck. You will note that the location of the third picture is the same as the picture posted by Henrik earlier....but it's a different truck, judging from the vehicles driving in front of it.

check around 2:20, 6:10 and 6:30


Alex

[marco]

Photo taken in Leeuwarden, Holland in the second half of May 1945.
The location is at or nearby the railway station and the photo shows a line-up of vehicles from RCCS attached to the XII Manitoba Dragoons.

The 15CWT on the left has a marking "AC 4" on the bumper.
According to a wartime list from the XIIMD administration, this vehicle was a "RCCS - IM Shop" van, not clear to me what this means.
The one on the right has a marking "AC 3" , meaning "RCCS (LP) Ech Set Link".

Marco.

[David Dunlop]

Marco.

AC4 appears to be an 8-cwt HU. I wonder if it is a ZL bearing a fancy name? AC3 looks to have a house type wireless body on it. The LP probably means 'Low Power'. It might be some form of field relay vehicle.

Looks like an interesting building behind them.

David

[Alex van de Wetering]

Awesome picture Marco!
I agree with David....could be a rare ZL. Also great to see a C15A with house type body ....and even a rare 3Ton truck with house type body.

Looks like an interesting building behind them

I am pretty sure the building is a freight storage building; the size and shape of these buildings were very similar all through the country. Freight trains could stop on one side, trucks on the other. These buildings were usually positioned quite close to the regular passenger railway stations.



Alex

[Alex van de Wetering]

You do need good eyes for the next one....

The picture is from Bill Miller's Canadian Kangaroo Regiment Association and archive facebook page and originally came from Art Bell's collection. According to the description the picture was taken in Germany, 1945.......a 4x4 cab11/12 in 1 CACR service(?)


Thanks Bill!

Alex

[Alex van de Wetering]

A couple more Monkey faces in the Deelen dump, september 1946.

Original Pictures are from the Dutch National Archives.

First picture shows a cab12 in the centre of the picture....second row of trucks. It's hard to see, but there might be 2 or 3 more on the right of the picture.

Second picture shows cab 12....not sure if it's the same one as in picture 1, but I think it's a different one.

Third pictures shows 2 Cab 12 FATs.
Fourth picture seems to show 3 more Early FAT's behind the cab13 FATs.

Alex

[lynx42]

Not sure if this is Europe of Russia. The front or main truck is also interesting, I love the sand tyres in the mud.





Regards Rick.

[Alex van de Wetering]

A rare Ford F8 Heavy Utility in Polish service, Ter Apel (Holland) april 15 1945!

source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TZs...dex=66&list=WL

From about 3:21

Alex

[Alex van de Wetering]

Monkey face C15A in Den Haag, may 1945

source: http://www.haagsebeeldbank.nl/

[Alex van de Wetering]

Two more Monkey face trucks in NW Europe to start 2018!

First one is a 12cab 3 Ton truck with Bailey bridge equipment on board an LCT on Sword Beach, D-day + 4 (June 10th 1944). source: http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205314106

Second is I think a C15A cab12 with the doors removed and what seems a replacement makeshift cab roof. Still from a Pathe movie of the Liberation of Amsterdam 1945. I could be the same truck that also appears on a picture taken in Haarlem and footage taken in Zandvoort, but I have to check.
Source:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xL0c...t=WL&index=103
around 1:18

Alex

[marco]

Found another photo from "AC-3" showing some detail from the rear body.

Marco