41 ford 3 ton 4x4

[Bob Carriere]

I understand you already have the OD green sickness havcing been victim of a UC.

Interesting project you have in mind.

Be guided by comments from others but always remember IT IS YOUR TRUCK and you van do what you want with it....... be it a museum piece or a fun machine that looks the part.

Pictures of what you are playing with would be nice as some of us can't read toooo good.

Are you considering transplanting and original Marmon-Herrington power train conversion under your Ford or just converting with readily available 4x4 parts which could be modern system or a circa 1940 from a CMP donor truck?

In any events good luck, do not be afraid to ask questions and do not forget to let us see plenty of Photos.

Cheers

[leo tomaiolo]

thanks for the repiles. i figure the germans had captured at least 1 of everything at some point. i know i have seen a picture of what looked like a 1941 ford used by british forces in italy captioned "HQ truck in the mud near Rimini". as far as the 4 wheel set up it will be all original i have secured 2 marmon equiped trucks. one was a '41' with a single speed transfer case. and a '46' with a 2 speed and a compensating gear for the front axle. both were shortwheel base trucks 1.5 ton. i'm using the front axle from the '41' and the transfer case from the '46'. it's just a better case. my goal is to make it as close to 100% to 1941 ford as i can. i've already rebuilt the motor and gone thru the running gear, brakes, lines, etc. had to cut the chassie for the front drive shaft. mounted the crossmembers for the transfer case. i'm at the point that the rolling chassie is now a running and driving chassie. up next lot of pannel repair. i have loads of pictures.

[Bob Carriere]

You are well underway.......love the pictures.

Somewhat familiar with the 4x4 Ford system used on Canadian Mil. Pat. but can understand how the tranny/engine is held in the frame at the back of the engine.

The front of the engine is mounted on the familiar two engine pads....but what holds up the rear.....?

You were very fortunate to find M-H power train to do your conversion.

Have you ever attended the Weare rally and/or when will we see your truck in the flesh?

You have a very unique vehicle.

Don't be stingy with the pictures.

Bob C

[leo tomaiolo]

ivan are the gaparite pins the width markers on the front bumper? as far as the mirror goes i have noticed that most trucks do only have one mirror but where i live people drive like a-holes and found it unavoidable. it also helps when i tow my PAK 38. but that's another thread. but maybe i can make it removable for shows.

[Ivan Podgornov]

Hi Leo!

Originally Posted by leo tomaiolo

ivan are the gaparite pins the width markers on the front bumper?

Yes, I mean width markers on the front bumper.
Sorry, i don't know proper term.
There are several types of such markers on german Fords (some kind of evolution) and sometimes they were added to captured trucks. But not so often on 1940 Fords.

Originally Posted by leo tomaiolo

as far as the mirror goes i have noticed that most trucks do only have one mirror but where i live people drive like a-holes and found it unavoidable. it also helps when i tow my PAK 38. but that's another thread. but maybe i can make it removable for shows.

Yes, sure :-) I can't imagine how to drive without right mirror...
It was just a comment from scale modeller

[Lynn Eades]

Bob, the gearbox mount is hidden by the short propshaft, down onto the two holes in the black cross member.

[rob love]

Originally Posted by Bob Carriere

The front of the engine is mounted on the familiar two engine pads....but what holds up the rear.....?

The rear adapter on the transmission has two feet that go down to the crossmember and have two motor mounts like the front of the engine.

The basic Ford transmission case is adaptable to many of the Ford models by changing that rear adapter, or in the case of the carrier, you have to add an extra hole in the case to accept the carrier (round) adapter.

[Rob Beale]

The rear gearbox mount Lynn describes is similar to that used in LP2 and LP2A carriers. (There are different mounting heights though)
Rob

[Mike K]

My 93 year old German neighbour was a driver in the artillery , he was captured in Italy . He told me he did his army driving license test in a 4X4 Opel truck . He showed me a interesting book he has, published in Germany during the war, the book details the technical specifications of British armour eg tanks , it is printed in the old Gothic German script, I would love to get a loan of it . Mike

[Lynn Eades]

Rob L., I think the mount is a one piece rubber mount that is probably captive in the cross member and held there with another plate on the bottom (I'm not sure about this particular set up) There are two steel bosses moulded into the rubber that stick up through the holes. The cast bracket bolts to these. The park brake anchor and speedo drive boss are part of the mount and can be easily seen.
I have one of those rubber mounts. It is a standard commercial Ford part, that used in conjunction with a std commercial cast mount, bolted to the back of the box at the holes you speak of. The LP2/ LP2A carriers used a longer rubber mount and a taller cast mount, both of which are Ford parts, special to the Australian pattern carriers.

Leo, I like your clever way of having only the front of the truck in your shed.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Bob Carriere

Somewhat familiar with the 4x4 Ford system used on Canadian Mil. Pat.

Bob, more than "somewhat familiar", it was downright copied - see link:

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Here's what Sid Swallow had to say on the subject (source: 'Canada's Wartime Prototypes' by Rolland Jerry, published in Vintage Canada, vol.5/2 of March/April 1978). From what I read, initially Ford assumed responsibility of designing the cab and sheetmetal, GM handled the chassis layout, while the four-wheel-drive layout was adopted from Marmon-Herrington. Ford and GM both handled detail engineering to make sure each manufacturer's components would suit the overall design.

And read my webpage here: http://www.mapleleafup.nl/marmonherrington/

Marmon-Herrington's expertise on all-wheel drive vehicles was also called upon when the Canadian automotive industry geared up for war production: "Immediately after the war was declared, the Ford Motor Company of Canada were charged with the responsibility of developing a 4x4 truck for army use. Obviously, they had very little experience in this field [...] Consequently they went to the Marmon-Herrington Company, Indianapolis, who in peace time supplied conversion material to convert Standard Ford 4x2 trucks into 4x4 models for various commercial peace time usage. [...] these joints were unsuitable [...] [the weight of the more or less cab over engine design and heavy army wheels/tires put too much load on the front axle joints.] To solve this problem, "Bendix-Weiss and Rzeppa joints were chosen by General Motors and Ford respectively [...] [They later realized that the "Tracta" type was better but they were already tooled up with the above types, so left it as it was.] (The Design Record, Vol. 4, p. 27).

[Bob Carriere]

Strange how the CMP evolved.

[leo tomaiolo]

it's been awhile since i've posted. but things are back on track. i've made a lot of progress on the truck and will put some new picts up. been thinking about getting a 1940 hood for the truck but haven't found one for a reasonable price. wasn't sure if i should keep posting picts of the restoration here or start a new thread under restoration thread. i'll let the fourm moderators decide that.

[Gordons]

These MH had the low sides wood decks with an add on side extension for higher sides.

Originally Posted by leo tomaiolo

it's been awhile since i've posted. but things are back on track. i've made a lot of progress on the truck and will put some new picts up. been thinking about getting a 1940 hood for the truck but haven't found one for a reasonable price. wasn't sure if i should keep posting picts of the restoration here or start a new thread under restoration thread. i'll let the fourm moderators decide that.