T16 running problems

[horsa]

Might be good to verify the cable from the coil to the dizzy is good. Breaks, bad connection or corrosion would prevent the coil from being able to hand off power and it would overheat and produce intermittent performance. When restoring the dingo recently, I had very similar issues which symptoms would have indicated a fuel issue. Vehicle would start from cold and run smooth a bit before seeming to have a fuel starvation issue with rough running and then stopping. Couldn't restart immediately which would have seemed like the engine was flooded or we had a vapor lock issue. Coil was extremely hot though after a race car mechanic suggested it was an electrical issue. In out case is was coil issues and this resolved everything. If it ends up being the same situation for you, a heat shield for the coil, or modification of the mounting bracket to get t further away from the head might help. Alternately getting a coil that is rated for high heat and for shock since some will fail if bounced around too much.

[rob love]

One thing I have learned with the early ignition systems is to stick to metallic wiring for the ignition wires. The 7mm and 8mm modern carbon core wires that are commonly installed on these engines in the past 60 years or so are not ideal.

When it comes to ignition parts for the Ford Flathead, there is really nothing that is not available from places like Mac's. Even the original distributor mounted coils are now available. I have used them and am quite happy with their performance.

[andrew honychurch]

Originally Posted by rob love

One thing I have learned with the early ignition systems is to stick to metallic wiring for the ignition wires. The 7mm modern carbon core wires that are commonly installed on these engines in the past 40 years or so are not ideal.

When it comes to ignition parts for the Ford Flathead, there is really nothing that is not available from places like Mac's. Even the original distributor mounted coils are now available. I have used them and am quite happy with their performance.

I will check my HT leads but feels confident that they are the style wire multi core type. I maybe wrong . Problem with fitting the 6v coil is that I dont have the voltage reduction item (can't recall what it's called now)

I do wonder why they were specified with 12 volt electrics and a 6 volt coil. Surely not cost cutting?

[horsa]

I'd reiterate what Rob says with making sure you have metal core wires and not modern performance types with a carbon core.

When I had my T-16, it did suffer from this issue but I was convinced at the time that it was fuel/heating related and not an electrical/heating issue. I switched to an electric fuel pump and it seemed to resolve the problem for the most part. The dingo came along after we'd sold the T-16 so I wish I still had access to it for testing the coil/wiring fix since it 100 percent nailed it in the case of the dingo. I was very skeptical until I saw the results first hand changing the leads and ensuring good connections.

A related issue for you is the noise suppression "filters" on the coil and spark wires. Essentially each is an electrical short waiting to happen if you have them installed. Basically 18 self inflicted places the wires can be getting poor connections as the wood screws loose contact with the wires they are threaded into. Sixteen ends on spark wires and two ends on the coil wire. Very similar mechanically to how the dingo wires have the screws to make contact inside the waterproof distributor housing.

On 6v to 12v, Ford was using 6v on cars and trucks at the time but they wanted 12v for the wireless set. Easier for them to stay with a stepped down 6v coil during the war.

On electronic distributors, most come with a very hot coil which is likely epoxy filled as opposed to oil filled so they can be mounted sideways and are shock/rattle proof. Many oil filled coils will begin to fail if mounted sideways/horizontal which gets worse as they overheat. I'd get a high performance epoxy filled coil and check wires before changing to an electronic v8 dizzy. If you do go electronic, you'd not be out anything since you'd need both anyway.

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by andrew honychurch

I do wonder why they were specified with 12 volt electrics and a 6 volt coil. Surely not cost cutting?

Andrew,
This was to aid starting, as is done on the Rolls B range engines only they have a 12v coil on a 24v system, running through a ballast resisitor. This is bypassed all the time the starter is engaged, giving double the voltage to the coil to compensate for voltage drop due to starter motor.

[RichardT10829]

I had an issue on a run where mine started to lose power then ultimately called it a day.

The issue was the ignition was drinking the battery dry, the generator just wasn't putting enough juice into the battery.

I had the brushes changed on the generator and the problem never came back.

Should it happen again it's worth checking your battery just after it happens

[andrew honychurch]

Thx Chaps. Will report back asap. E type coil is horizontally mounted on front of cylinder head adjacent to the header tank. Hot hot hot but they work ok. Maybe not as hot. I now have a digital laser thermometer so will be interested to see HOW hot it's getting.

[jeff davis]

Originally Posted by Rhett Fisher

Hi Stewart,
I see that you already have several well informed replies re. your problem but I'll shove in my five pennyworth anyway!
As far as I'm aware, all the 6v flatheads,early or late, use a nominally 4v coil with a wirewound resistor between it and the ignition switch. This resistor is made from Eueka wire which has the property of increasing its resistance as it heats up. This has a very useful effect in basic ignition systems, i.e, the primary current is shared between it and the coil. When the engine is idling the contacts are closed for a relatively long time, so the primary current tends to increase giving the coil a hard time.
However, the resistor counters this so the coil does not cook.
On the other hand, when the engine is at high revs the resistor cools, allowing plenty of current to convert into high speed sparks.
Another handy effect of this system is that if the ignition switch is left on with the engine stalled, the resistor stops the coil going into meltdown if the contacts are closed. I think the resistor should measure about 0.75 Ohms at 20c.
Great care must be taken when setting the contact breakers on 8 lobe cams, as one set 'makes', and the other set 'breaks'. The contacts are NOT 180 deg. apart, which cleverly increases the coil saturation ( Dwell ) time to 36 deg., giving a better spark.A proper setting fixture is best but I have had good results using a vice to hold the distributor, wiring in a coil, plug, battery and resistor, using a drill to turn the dist. shaft at approx. 2000 RPM, using a dwell meter or 'scope to check the results.
A later development of the Ballast Resistor is the cold start bypass system i.e, when the engine is cranked over the heavy starter current drops the battery voltage from, say, 6v to 5v. A separate wire from a terminal on the starter solenoid is fixed to the coil primary terminal, bypassing the resistor, so now there is 5v to a 4v coil and, hey presto, big fat sparks to fire the old girl up! Clever huh! This system overcomes a problem known as coil robbing which some folks may have experienced by the engine firing just as you let go of the starter switch.
Sorry if all this comes over as a lecture but i've always found that things are much easier to fix if you know how they work in the first place!
Good luck,
Rhett Fisher

From an old thread sorry don't know how to bring up except copy paste
Jeff

[andrew honychurch]

Hi David. Long time. Thanks for the advice, I am going to look at the coil and leads tomorrow and see what I have fitted. I did manage quite a bit of work with the T16 when first restored but the problem was always there but just getting worse all the time. Another owner here in the UK with exactly the same issue solved it with a new built electronic distributor. Apparently his Carrier now runs non stop all day and is as sweet as can be. He did fit a new high powered coil to go with the dizzy. Since I don't do much with the T16 I was rather hoping to avoid the cost of a distributor but I am convinced the divers helmet is at fault, at least in this application. I copied the bracket for the coil from a British Army mod on yet another T16 here in the UK but you are probably right it's getting just too hot. I think we may have discussed this before but again quoting an old wives tale, I was told by someone that a large batch of rotor arms were made with the wrong bacolite mix which resulted in tracking. That maybe rubbish of course but sounds credible. Did you once tell me that your T16 suffered from this as well?