25 Pounder info needed.

[David Dunlop]

Your Illuminating Apparatus looks a lovely bit of kit. Congratulations on purchasing it. Just wondering if it is essentially the same equipment supplied in different Cases, for different applications over the years?


David

[Private_collector]

David, i had wondered the same thing.
Short answer is, i have absolutely no idea.
It would suit me if that were so, though my good fortune probably wouldn't stretch that far.

There are other identical units available also. If interested, send me a PM for the contact details.

[lynx42]

Here you go Tony. Now you have to arrange freight to you.







Photo one and three are the same wheel.
I am sure you will find something I need for a swap. If not they are yours anyway.

Regards Rick.

Originally Posted by lynx42

Hi Tony,

I happen to have a pair of 25pdr wheels put away some where. They are quite heavy and I guess that a freight company would be the way to go to get them to you. I will take a photo in a few days and you can decide.
regards Rick.

[Private_collector]

PM sent, Rick!

[Private_collector]

Changed my mind about filling the heads of the slotted bolts to create a rivet appearance from the front of the shield.



Decided on using round head bolts, grinding down the characteres on the head and removing most of the square section under the head. I did leave a couple of roughened areas, to catch on the shield metal and prevent the bolt from turning when tightening. I tested this theory, and it does work. Only because the shield is aluminium, so there's another reason for using the lighter metal! Obviously ALL these fake rivets will have nuts on the inside of the shield, but I can live with that. I had been graciously offered real rivets to use, but I'm not talented enough to use this method of fastening. Nor do I have the tools to do so.

So far, I have prepared a total of 40 bolts. 20 small and 20 larger size. Having just counted, I need further 55 of the smaller size, and another 15 of the larger. It took me 2hrs of careful grinding and filing to get the first batch to the condition I wanted. In addition to all those, two brackets will need to be hex head bolts, due to lack of access to rear. I.E: 4x bolts to zero scale block, and 4x bolts to Illuminating Apparatus case mounting bracket (nuts are welded to rear of the bracket itself).

[Private_collector]

It took a surprisingly long time to prepare the shield for etch priming this afternoon. These things are something I only want to do once, so there has been a lot of sanding and some filing to ensure the upper shield doesnt scrape any paint off, once reinstalled.

The etch went on very smoothly. I was surprised, actually. I have found some etches in past to be a bit fussy with application. Too light, you've made sandpaper. Too heavy a coat, and it all slides down...but not evenly.

I used a Protec etch that I have only used previously in spray cans, and I'm impressed with it. Having made the effort to actually ask for the MSDS, I left it inside this morning, and was thoroughly grubby and sweaty by the time I remembered it. Rightly or wrongly, I decided to do without it. All I wanted to know was thinning ratio, and I winged it. Still couldn't say what ratio is. Just kept pouring thinners into the pot until it felt 'right'.

Since getting home last night, I haven't had a chance to shop for more bolts to make my fake rivets, so I'll get them while paint dries tomorrow. There is potentially hours in getting the bolts to my specifications, so nothing else will go onto the shield at this stage. I didn't take any photos of the bolts I have put on so far, but will do that tomorrow. Not yet had one that turned while being tightened, though that will surely happen now that I have made this comment! I'm pleased with how they appear from the angry side of the shield. Just look like bolts from the other side.

Tomorrow, it gets greener.

[Private_collector]

Gents,
Took a number of 25 pdr reference photos at Bandiana Military Museum.
The following may be of interest / use to someone.



More to follow.

[Private_collector]

[Private_collector]

[Private_collector]

That's the lot.

One of the above, is not like the other ones. Do you see which one? It is from a ceremonial carriage which has been used for some of Australias most noted military funerals in past years. There are, in fact, two of these carriages at the museum. They have carried the caskets of: Sir Ernest Edward "Weary" Dunlop AC, CMG, OBE, and our last ANZAC, Mr Alec William Campbell, who died in 2002, aged 103. Rest their souls.

I have some photos of the ceremonial carriages, if anyone is intereted.

[lynx42]

Great photos Tony.

The gun carriage would be this one due to the uprights and the brake lines.





Regards Rick.

[Private_collector]

That's right Rick, well spotted. Never seen another 25 pdr with vacuum brakes. Good sensible addition for a carriage that simply MUST NOT FAIL during service. I bet it got meticulous overhauling in addition to the upgrade.

Mrs B got to sit in a Jeep while we were at the museum. I don't recall seeing this 'interactive exhibit' vehicle when I visited in September 2015, but it was a hurried visit that day.

And this is what will happen to me if any more military vehicles find their way to our place.
That said, I have been given a 1941 Ford CMP which is yet to be retrieved. That hasn't been discussed as yet.

Did you get my PM about your wheels?

[Private_collector]

Shield is painted...just. The hot weather had not been kind to my stock of paint, and one part can had started to go off, so I was confined to another, smaller can. I try not to leave less than 1/4 of volume of any can (regardless of can size) in storage for longer than several weeks, but sometimes it's unavoidable. The off can was 5 months old. That's Queensland summer for you!

I'm happy with the appearance of the 'rivets', as long as you don't look at the other side of the shield.

The Illuminating apparatus bracket went on since I took these photos, but i couldn't be bothered cleaning myself up enough to get more bolts from the hardware shop in town, so no other brackets will go on in near future. No matter. Best for the paint to cure a bit more anyway, and it can do that out in the sunshine for a day or so.

[Phillip]

Tony, great work.

The illuminating apparatus for the No.7 Director is interesting and your pictures have solved a small conundrum for me.

I picked one up several years ago but it is slightly different from yours as it has an attachment that illuminates the graticule rather than one that fits in the replacement cover. (My director has the replacement cover but this was already fitted).

The wander light is dated 1941 so these must have actually been useful (unlike the No.5 illuminating apparatus which was reported to be useless)

[Private_collector]

Hello Phillip,

Mine is a no. 1 mark 1 I.A., not a no. 7. That may explain the differences you found. Personally, I don't have a clue how these things work, but would welcome an education. Great piece of equipment. I must get a battery and try mine, when I get a chance. I hope the voltage is written on the bulbs, because I don't even know that much.

There are still some available from where I bought mine, and at $40, I think that's pretty reasonable. Especially when you get the privilege of opening the storage box that has been sealed up since last checked in mid (in my case) 1980s. Not exactly comparable to finding the Dead Sea Scrolls, but a different kind of treasure, regardless.

[Phillip]

Hi Tony,

To clarify, the illuminating apparatus is an Australian No1. Mk1 and is designed to fit the Director No.7. Look up Nigel's website on the laying of guns for a detailed explanation of the process.

Maker on the wander light is Stromberg Carlson, dated 1941 however plug is Australian made. This suggests that the design was used proprietary parts and did not change much between 1940's and the mid 1950's. The box is the same as a field telephone!

I'm curious to see what the difference is between the graticle lights.

[Private_collector]

Cheers Phillip!

If you tell me which bit is the graticle light, I can photograph it close up
for you, and/or take measurements.

[Private_collector]

The shield buildup is nearly finished.

Just a couple more things to be done, including the second color for one of the signs, brush painting all the bolts (both sides, two or more coats), finishing the leather strap for the canvas bag holder, and finishing the brackets for the slide rule and canvas cover. Now that i think about it, there's quite a bit more to do, damn it! At least I got all the brackets and instruments installed on the lower shield.

As usual, I started to run out of daylight before I got around to installing the upper shield, so I thought I better not attempt it today. It's not a job I can rush, and it will be a two person job, so it can wait until next weekend.

Had an interesting time with this 9th Division sign, when I did the black background on Friday afternoon. I have a thing for symmetry, so alignment is important. I used a large carpenters square to get the position correct, then applied tabs of low tack tape to mark where the edges would be. Alas, at some stage the square had moved between applying two pieces of the aligning masking tape. Not realising this, everything I did from that point on was WRONG! This was only confirmed after the paint was applied and all the masking materials removed. I couldn't believe how such a stupid mistake could be made. I always recheck alignment again after final position is marked......except that one occasion. As a resuly, I had to wait for the paint to dry, rub back all the edges, then remask (after measuring multiple times) and repaint again, slightly larger this time. The platypus and boomerang in white, were very much easier. It's not perfect, but I chose to go with higher detail of the design, which meant the lines were not quite as 'clean' as would have been if I accepted image with less detail. I can live with that. The platypus would have lost his facial detail if I smoothed the image any further!

Still looking for an illuminating apparatus box! Anything considered!!!! Seriously.
The space where the box should be, just looks so bare without that piece in place.

Also, I have another, more exciting, piece of news to tell. I don't think I'll go into that until I can take and upload photos at same time. Sorry!

[Private_collector]

Another small job done.

[Private_collector]

Several minor things achieved today.

The seat is wearing coat 1 of 4 or 5 coats of varnish, wand will get a light sanding between each coat. The seat is quite nice timber, though I'm sure that was not a consideration at time of manufacture.

Slide rule brackets are finished and painted, but not yet attached.
I had intentions of putting the upper shield back on today, and the brackets would have gone on shortly thereafter, but I lost some time working on something else. Next post is dedicated to that one.

Second color is now applied to the artillery unit signage. Despite numerous layers of masking tape, some of the solvent caused the blue (applied last weekend) to react with the initial layer of tape, resulting in a slight change in texture. I started to polish this out with cutting compound, and found it heavily scratched the surface. I put a stop to that pretty damn quickly, but not before making another job for myself later on. I'll probably end up sanding both red & blue with 1200 w & d, then applying a satin clear over the whole thing. This will have to be done before I can spray the flat white colored unit number. Figures!

[Private_collector]

This is my freshly acquired 25 pounder axle and wheel set. The only thing missing is the handbrake lever and tube that makes both sides brake shoes actuate at once. I can make one of those, and I have a few handbrake levers of different sizes to choose a suitable looking one from.

Many thanks to the MLU member who contacted me to say he had this for sale . And he was only a lazy 3hr drive away, too! Mrs B and I enjoyed the drive, and we met another great member of the MLU community. Just wished we had more time to chat before the drive home again. I haven't asked permission to mention who I got the axle from, but he can identify himself, if willing to do so. Certainly saved me some angst, and my project will be so much the better for his help.

And this is why I didn't get as far with the other things I intended to do today. I had an urge to see if I could get a wheel off it's hub, and settled in for a potentially drawn out period removing wheel nuts. In reality, they all came away without any problem. I was even able to undo one nut by fingers alone after about 3/4 turn with the spanner. That's ridiculous for something which must have been sitting for christ knows how many years! With the wheel now off, I started work on removing the remains of the tyre. As usual, it was virtually welded to the rim. The above photo will attest to all the work I put in with the angle grinder to cut one side away before severing the bead entirely. No manner of belting or leavering would break the tyre bead from the wheel BEFORE it was cut through. Once that was done, it almost fell off by itself! Well, OK, maybe not fall off as such, but one strike with a cold chisel and I was ready to start on the other side. The smell of burning rubber with using a grinder on a tyre, is something I'm still recovering from. I swear I can still taste it, let alone smell it. Disgusting aroma. The neighbours must hate me after today. N.B: The tyre had a gaping hole ripped in it before I started using the grinder, or I would NEVER have attempted it. I recall wisdom told to me way back when I first joined the forum, regarding pyrolysis and explosions therefrom. Didn't wish to go there.

I wasn't really ready to see this amount of rust scale inside the wheel, and I do admit my heart sank for a moment or two. After a few well placed whacks with the cold chisel (still laying in proximity, after tyre removal), I felt a bit happier.

There is still plenty of good thick metal left in place. The wheel WILL carry some 'scars' of age, but should be OK to use. I'll attack it properly with a descaler next weekend, before sending it off for the mandatory sandblasting.

Got the pulling rings on each side moving freely after very little effort, and I really, really wanted to take the hub off as well, but ran out of daylight. The hub turns freely though, without any grinding noise. If I spun it hard and applied the brake, it stops immediately. No strange grating or grinding noises, ........It just stops. Hopefully this means brake shoes are still in good usable condition.

Incidentally, my 900x16 tyres, the ones that gave me grief trying to get them onto CMP rims, they're gonna give me trouble getting them onto these wheels as well. I know, I tried one with no success. Possibly a trained fitter may have better luck, because they are perfect look for this project.

[Private_collector]

Upper shield panel is back on.

The artillery sign now has 3 coats of clear over the colors.
I'll flatten it back, before the numbers are added (sprayed, not vinyl sheet)

Seat is finished. It got 4 coats of varnish in total.

The C B reflectors work. Spooky!

Second wheel is now off it's hub.
The hub on this side is currently stuck fast,........so the game is afoot .
I may cut the tyre off the second wheel tomorrow afternoon, if I get home before dark & feel like coughing up another lung full of burnt rubber smoke.

[Euan McDonald]

Tony, save your lung and try a jigsaw instead. I drill a start hole then run the jigsaw around the tyre.

[Private_collector]

Absolutely, Euan! I'll give that a trot. I have a few spare blades around the workshop.

It's gotta be better than smokin the tyre (I do actually wear a mask though). Makes me sound like darth Vader!

One day I must tell you folks the story of how, in my late teens, a friend and I concocted a scheme to make my Honda ACTY van smoke it's 10" wheels like a drag car. Put the local V8 wankers to shame, it really did!

[Private_collector]

Folks,

Is there any trick/s to removing the hubs from my 25pdr axle?
Are any of the bolts/nuts I need to remove, that are LH thread?

Thanks,

[Phillip]

Tony,

Remove the 5/16 BSF studs, and remove the bearing cap - the axle nut is underneath.

Regards

[Private_collector]

Thanks Phillip.

[Private_collector]

The axle is now disassembled.

All applicable parts (most of em!) can now go off for blasting.
I won't do that until Wednesday next week.

It was a great surprise to see virtually every internal part is in fantastic condition. Didn't snap one stud, or ruin thread or nuts. Some nuts came away with one tap of the hammer on end of the spanner. Some were a little more determined, but came away none the less. The brake shoes and mechanisms are in very good shape. I won't be messing with them, but will tape them and the axle shafts off, so no blasting grit gets in there. Besides, the brake shoe linings would be asbestos material. I'll give the brakes and inner backing plates a good wash down with petrol before the blaster gets hold of them. One hub was very simple to remove, while the other took a bit more work. That one was welded to the brake shoe linings and some force was needed to seperate the two parts. With the hub finally off, I could see some light corrosion was the culprit. That was compounded by the thickness of the linings themselves. They looked almost new, and were thicker that the ones on the other side.

I am tempted to break my own golden rule and reuse all four bearings. They are completely undamaged or worn. I had to strip out all the old grease. It had turned to consistency of Vegemite. In fact, it was the same color too. Once all that goop was removed, the bearings were examined closely, without any corrosion or wear discovered. Each one has a cage made from what looks like bronze or brass. If I can refill them with fresh grease, I'll save them all. Grease seals, on the other hand, are both for the bin. One is borderline servicable, but will get chucked along with the other, more cheesy consistency one.

Phillip, I'm very glad you wrote about using a jigsaw to cut the remaining tyre apart. I really didn't consider the blade would stand up to the job, so overlooked that entirely! I was wrong. I did break one blade, but it was a situational thing that happens when it's so dark you can't see what you are doing. I had REALLY wanted to try cutting the tyre from the wheel, so a little thing like lack of sight wasn't going to stop me. I then went on to release one of the beads from the wheel, using a cold chisel. It took about 15min, and I was virtually 'using the force' by that time. Quite surprised I didn't mash a finger actually.

I found some parts which date manufacture to 1941, according to stamps on various locations.

This axle was a great purchase. The lack of nasty surprises is a refreshing change from my usual modus operandi, trust me!
It appears that hubs and stub axle plates were fully painted before being assembled in the factory. There was/is green paint in places that could NEVER be reached once final assembly had been done. Pity to cover it up, really. If my paintjob lasts as long as this paint has endured, I will be very happy............and dead by about 40 years too, I figure!

[David Dunlop]

Does this mean the Land Rover born axle will now give way to this original for the 1/4-pdr? That would free up the LR axle to form the basis for a limber project down the road…


David

[Private_collector]

Yes David, the Land Rover made axle is certainly surplus to needs. I probably won't tackle another project like this, but I'll keep it in storage and out of harms way. It's just about cool enough to resume work on the truck restoration, so I will be chopping and changing between the two jobs. The engine build for my green CMP is the current piece of the puzzle, and I am considering handing that off to someone else for the remainder of assembly. My near neighbour is not only a professional welder (Navy taught) but also has mechanical engineering experience +++. I figure he would do better work than I, and a fresh pair of eyes at this point in time might pickup something I have missed! If he does engine assembly for me, I will be freed up to finish the sunshine roof, make canvas pieces, and do more on the gun.