Thornton-Welles locking differential

[cliff]

I am not sure where these 3 photos came from but these are photos of the Thornton-Welles conversion which converted 2 & 4 wheel drive trucks to 6X4 and 6X6 versions.

Hope this helps

Just noticed the photos are labelled as Welles-Thornton not Thornton-Welles

[cliff]

Photos came from

http://www.warfare.altervista.org/Ma...truck_cdn.html

where there are other photos and information as well

[Lynn Eades]

Some Ford tandem drives had "Thornton drive" Back ends in them. I'm guessing that's them. Now having looked:
In my book "Military vehicles produced by Ford Motor Company of Canada, Windsor, Ontario" there are listed
Ford-Thornton refueling unit 6x4
and Ford -Thornton-Marmon Herrington Crash Tender 6x6
There is also a Ford- Warford Crash Tender 6x4.
Is this any help?

[gjamo]

http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...=&threadid=989

[Lionelgee]

Hello All,

A research challenge

Part of the confusion may be from a common linking of a type of differential with the name of their accredited distributor.

I located this link about an experimental vehicle based off a Ford chassis - Accessed August 4th 2016 from https://servicepub.wordpress.com/201...illery-tractor

The link states that the differential parts were sourced from "The Canadian distributor for Thornton bogies, H.V. Welles of Windsor, Ontario, carried out the conversions". So they could be Thornton Bogies that were supplied and converted by H V Wells. This results in the Thornton-Welles reference.

There is a thread about them here in Australia. Accessed August 4th 2016 from, http://www.hcvc.com.au/forum/OldTruc...thornton-names

According to "Grandad - 23rd January 2013 "The Thornton Tandem Co. became the Detroit Automotive Products Corp" Accessed August 4th 2016 from, http://www.hcvc.com.au/forum/OldTruc...n-names#104467

My work here is done - teehee

Kind Regards
Lionel

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by cliff

Photos came from

http://www.warfare.altervista.org/Ma...truck_cdn.html

where there are other photos and information as well

Erm, err, actually, that is my Marmon-Herrington website, copied without my consent to another server when Geocities closed down.

Please go here to find the originals: http://www.mapleleafup.nl/marmonherr...truck_cdn.html

Thanks,
Hanno

[Tony Smith]

Whoa, slow down a little. The thread seems to have shot off on a tangent here.

The FGT Parts book is not talking about a 6x6/Tandem drive to convert a vehicle by utilising a Welles-Thornton rear bogie. The book is discussing an optional locking differential centre to be used in a 4x4 FGT.

C11Q-4299 Thornton-Welles Automatic Locking Differential (Optional, when specified).

The only other allied vehicle I can find reference to in WW2 having any kind of locking differential is the IH M-5H-6 6x6 trucks, with Thornton diffs. Are these the locking centres, or the tandem bogie arrangement? See: http://www.onallcylinders.com/2013/1...erential-town/

Curious the variations of Thornton-Welles and Welles-Thornton, which seem to relate to the US Supplier/Canadian Distributor relationship rather than any trade name or patent right (which seems to lie solely with Ray Thornton).

(Funny how this thread has sat dormant for 12 years and suddenly springs to life again.)

[Lionelgee]

Originally Posted by Tony Smith

Whoa, slow down a little. The thread seems to have shot off on a tangent here.

The FGT Parts book is not talking about a 6x6/Tandem drive to convert a vehicle by utilising a Welles-Thornton rear bogie. The book is discussing an optional locking differential centre to be used in a 4x4 FGT.



The only other allied vehicle I can find reference to in WW2 having any kind of locking differential is the IH M-5H-6 6x6 trucks, with Thornton diffs. Are these the locking centres, or the tandem bogie arrangement? See: http://www.onallcylinders.com/2013/1...erential-town/

Curious the variations of Thornton-Welles and Welles-Thornton, which seem to relate to the US Supplier/Canadian Distributor relationship rather than any trade name or patent right (which seems to lie solely with Ray Thornton).

(Funny how this thread has sat dormant for 12 years and suddenly springs to life again.)

Hello Tony,

My reading of the (optional when specified) was that the Thornton diffs could be supplied as an option if the buyer specifically asked for and was prepared to pay for them. So the option of the Thornton diffs like a factory fitted radio in a Holden Belmont was there if one wanted to pay for it. Otherwise Belmonts were the no frills base model and did not come with a radio as standard. The Premiers did though.

My reading of the posting by "Grandad" in my last post suggests that the Thornton diffs are the self locking ones .... Grandad states that "Ray Thornton designed the two-speed transfer box with a self-locking diff in it that later came out in 1939 as the NoSpin, which became the Detroit Locker...." Accessed August 4th 2016 from, http://www.hcvc.com.au/forum/OldTruc...n-names#104467

Kind Regards
Lionel

[Tony Smith]

This page discusses the experimental conversion of F60H chassis with Thornton bogies and a single locking differential, but it ultimately appears to have been an experiment, and not a production vehicle.

Perhaps this trial led to the approval of the Thornton locking differential to the 4x4 FGT?

[Lionelgee]

Originally Posted by Tony Smith

This page discusses the experimental conversion of F60H chassis with Thornton bogies and a single locking differential, but it ultimately appears to have been an experiment, and not a production vehicle.

Perhaps this trial led to the approval of the Thornton locking differential to the 4x4 FGT?

Hello Tony,

Yes that post is the one that I posted up a couple of hours ago. Accessed August 4th 2016 from https://servicepub.wordpress.com/201...illery-tractor

Kind Regards
Lionel

[Tony Smith]

Originally Posted by Lionelgee

Hello Tony,

Yes that post is the one that I posted up a couple of hours ago. Accessed August 4th 2016 from https://servicepub.wordpress.com/201...illery-tractor

Kind Regards
Lionel

That's true, but I thought you were referring to the tandem bogie conversion, and not the locking differential.

[Tony Smith]

This page details the intricacies of the Thornton tandem axle conversion (which apparently sold well into the 50's). From this description, it appears the Thornton locker was actually used between the drive to the middle and rear differentials, and not within an axle differential between left and right axle shafts. However, the depiction of the locker is precisely the same as modern day units sold as "Detroit NoSpin" lockers, which install within the differential and replace the pinion or spider gears. It is not technically impossible that this centre was fitted within the rear differential in the 4x4 FGT.