1940 Break Down Chevrolet Holden MCP

[Lionelgee]

Originally Posted by Tony Smith

Is that first truck you pictured an MCP, or a Standard truck? I'm not familiar with the earlier Chevs, could you run through some of the MCP features of the WA and WB Chevs?

I thought the MCPs were more like the LRDG WB 30cwt Chevs, with heavier duty front axles and hubs to support the wider wheels?:

G'day Tony,

The MCP were basically civilian trucks that were modified to different extents.... a little to a hell of a lot... Oh a check on MLU and the wider internet has a difference of opinion "Modified Civilian Pattern" or "Modified Conventional Pattern" ...

Have a look at Cliff's explanation Accessed November 20. 2016 from, http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...02&postcount=7

There is a whole thread devoted to MCPs Accessed November 20. 2016 from, http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...d.php?p=147431

In the case of my truck - it must have been made early in 1940 and when compared to a local 1940 truck that was bought new for a sugar cane farm, so it was not "borrowed" by the military - there is very little differences between the two trucks. By 1941 more in-factory modifications were taking place.

Hmmm I need to take more photographs of my mate's Chev - I do not have a photograph of his windscreen. Oh my mate's truck is the pretty blue one

Kind Regards
Lionel

[Mike K]

Pic P02399.014 is a typical 1939 model. The 39 has the earlier round separate instruments , plus bullet headlights and the different grill.

[Lionelgee]

Originally Posted by Mike Kelly

Pic P02399.014 is a typical 1939 model. The 39 has the earlier round separate instruments , plus bullet headlights and the different grill.

Hello Mike,

Both my mate and my Chevrolet trucks have the bullet lights and integrated or composite gauges set in a rectangular cluster. Also both mine and Merv's grille both have 16 horizontal bars. I cannot remember which whether the 1939 had one less or one more horizontal bars on the grille. Both trucks are also plated Holden's 1940. The photographs of my truck were taken when I first saw it in Dalby and I was preparing it for a tilt truck ride to its new home.

The previuus owner of my truck installed the external fuel tank. Merv upgraded the 6 volt system from a generator up to a 12 volt system with an alternator. My wiring is stock 6 volt generator. Oh and Merv put a 1950's chrome label "Chevrolet" on his engine hood's side shown in an earlier photograph.

In the Second last - bottom photograph you can look at the extreme right and just see the rectangular gauges cluster. The photo was taken originally to show that Merv's truck had a pretty lining on the door - where mine does not. Whether it had one in the first place and it has since fallen off I am not sure.

The last photograph shows what the blurry image is in the passenger footwell of the second last photo is. It is a display plaque that Merv puts up during truck shows. Merv's father bought the truck new and it is still in the shed on the same sugar cane farm.

Kind Regards
Lionel

[Mike K]

Hi Lionel

No your 1940 model doesn't have the bullet headlight shells. Look at the first pic you posted in this thread - it depicts the 39 model which has much longer headlight shells, shaped like a bullet , the 1940 model headlight shells, in comparison, are short and stubby. Not sure where this thread is going.... it's all over the place

[Tony Smith]

Originally Posted by Mike Kelly

Not sure where this thread is going.... it's all over the place

I'm trying to determine why Lionel thinks they are all MCP trucks, they look like Standard trucks to me.

[Lionelgee]

Originally Posted by Tony Smith

I'm trying to determine why Lionel thinks they are all MCP trucks, they look like Standard trucks to me.

What the thread is about is breakdown trucks. This is what the subject line originally read. The "modified" means a comparison between a show room available civilian/conventional pattern truck and things that have been changed, ergo "modified" by the military. My truck's windscreen was not something available to civilians on the local Holden distributor's show room floor. Therefore, does it not make sense that mine is indeed a Modified Civilian/Conventional Pattern truck?

Also I have physical evidence - from the manufacturer's plates that my truck was made in 1940. Merv's truck also has manufacturer's plates that also clearly state that it was made in 1940. Despite this I am informed that my truck was made in 1939!!!!

So let's get back to it Breakdown trucks that were on a civilian/conventional chassis. Ones that were modified by the military or changed in the factory from their fully civilian specification and modified according to military specification. It could be taken that simply fitting convoy lamps is a "modification". Modification goes from a 1% change to a 100% change from the original civilian/conventional source.

Yes Tony, All the vehicles that you posted were modified by the military. Yes they were on the same factory line as the fully civilian trucks however they at some time in their production were diverted to have things changed on them according to military specifications of the time. Or after their delivery to the military they were modified - so they become Modified Civilian/Conventional Pattern trucks. As in "Modified" ..... "civilian" or "conventional" .... "pattern".

My early photographs were meant to show how in some cases very little changes were made between a 100% civilian (Merv's truck) and my truck that was built for the military 1940 and "modified" in the factory early in World War II.

Kind Regards
Lionel

[Tony Smith]

Originally Posted by Lionelgee

What the thread is about is breakdown trucks. This is what the subject line originally read. The "modified" means a comparison between a show room available civilian/conventional pattern truck and things that have been changed, ergo "modified" by the military. My truck's windscreen was not something available to civilians on the local Holden distributor's show room floor. Therefore, does it not make sense that mine is indeed a Modified Civilian/Conventional Pattern truck?

Yes Tony, All the vehicles that you posted were modified by the military. Yes they were on the same factory line as the fully civilian trucks however they at some time in their production were diverted to have things changed on them according to military specifications of the time. Or after their delivery to the military they were modified - so they become Modified Civilian/Conventional Pattern trucks. As in "Modified" ..... "civilian" or "conventional" .... "pattern".

Kind Regards
Lionel

Lionel, your title of this thread is what I am inquiring about. You say "MCP". An MCP is a distinct model by the factory, with specific mechanical and detail differences, not simply Khaki paint or blackout lights. The Army used quantities of both Modified and Standard trucks, not all trucks employed by the Army are "MCP by default" if they are not CMPs. A Breakdown body placed on a Standard truck chassis is still a Standard truck, even if it is ordered by the Army.

[Tony Smith]

Originally Posted by Lionelgee

Also I have physical evidence - from the manufacturer's plates that my truck was made in 1940. Merv's truck also has manufacturer's plates that also clearly state that it was made in 1940. Despite this I am informed that my truck was made in 1939!!!!

Kind Regards
Lionel

I think you're getting overly sensitive about this. Who said your truck was made in 1939? Not Mike, who said: "Your 1940 model doesn't have the bullet headlight shells. Look at the first pic you posted in this thread - it depicts the 39 model which has much longer headlight shells, shaped like a bullet, the 1940 model headlight shells, in comparison, are short and stubby". Do you see the difference Mike has pointed out to ID the first truck as a 1939 and the second pic as a 1940? He was only keeping the discussion to Breakdown trucks.

[Lionelgee]

Originally Posted by Mike Kelly

Hi Lionel

it's all over the place

My apologies to both Mike and Tony,

Mike's summation is a pretty accurate portrayal of the last couple of months and the apparent immediate future. Either I have a target on my back ; or I have had a cavalcade of black cats crossing my path Needing new contact lenses doesn't help much either in the sight department. I missed the "Pic P02399.014" part of Mike's message.

I think Nietzsche and the "that which does not kill you makes you stronger" has a lot to answer for!

Kind Regards
Lionel

[Mike K]

Getting back to the cranes and Chev trucks.

Recycling is a modern idea? No, look at this. Is that a MCP Chev and a Me 109 ?

https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/F01832/

Sad thing is, people are still doing this type of thing in 3rd world countries, for maybe 50 cents a day profit.

[Lionelgee]

Originally Posted by Mike Kelly

Getting back to the cranes and Chev trucks.
Recycling is a modern idea? No, look at this. Is that a MCP Chev and a Me 109 t.

Hello Mike,

Thanks for the movie. To hazard a squint I would guess that is a Ernest Holmes Twin boom crane. It looks different to the other option of the era a Gar Wood crane. The Holmes cranes had a circular central pipe with diamond shaped external bracing. The Gar Woods of similar capacity were twin booms too. However each side of the boom was made up of two rectangular beams laying parallel on the horizontal and they had series of internal diagonally placed braces.

The CMP Gar Wood accessed November 21, 2016 from, http://www.coachbuilt.com/bui/g/gar_wood/gar_wood.htm Check out the slipstream buses too in the Gar Wood site. The photograph with the star on the door

Holmes Wrecker on CMP Accessed November 21, 2016 from,
http://tow411.yuku.com/topic/98900/S...s#.WDLqEn0wARk The CMP photograph taken from the rear view

It is a shame that the two Australian Army breakdown cranes are not as easy to identify.


A bit like recycling not being a new thing - I did not figure that Holmes made a tilt tray truck back in 1916. I thought they were a much more recent thing! The flatbed is chain drive and all the functions of the bed are cable powered. Photograph accessed November 21, 2016 from http://www.ebay.com/itm/1916-Ernest-...VVjugc&vxp=mtr

Kind Regards
Lionel