A good day at the flea market today!

[derk derin]

Stopped in at the flea market today and found a British 37 pattern small pack and it was full of contents! I also found a large can that looks like a 4 gallon flimsy and a First aid box which I have seen before so will have to research a bit on it unless somebody can identify it for me? I also found a double-hex 181 box end wrench I need for my CMP tool list.What a day!

[derk derin]

A picture of the Double-Hex 1/2''-9/16'' box end wrench 181 that I was looking for to add to my CMP 3 ton tool kit list. Now I have to find a Double-Hex 5/8''-3/4'' box end wrench 184.

[rob love]

Do you find it hard walking around flea markets with all those horseshoes in your posterior weighing you down?

Nice finds.

[derk derin]

It's the metal detectors at the airport that find that horseshoe up there every time!
Nice to find that wrench,I'm always happy to find another tool to add to my tool kit. I am also happy to finally find a signalling mirror and I know this one will be proper as the kit was all together when I bought it and judging by the straw at the bottom of the small pack,must have been in a shed or barn! I was also happy to find a Sheffield England knife in the kit.The fork isn't issue but the spoon is.I don't know that there was ever an issue knife as every soldier was supposed to have a clasp knife but as this knife was in with all the kit,must have been what he used.
Happy,Happy!
Derk

[rob love]

During my short time in the army, if we went to the field and forgot our knife, fork, or spoon, they got liberated from the nearest mess hall.

[David Dunlop]

Hey Derk.

Not sure about this one being a wartime GSW item. I had two, years ago (both went to Don Perry in Edmonton).

From what I recall, they are GSW stamped and dated as per their 2-Gallon and 1-Gallon cans. The cap is the same heavy brass and if memory serves, diagonally across the top of the can from the big brass cap is a much smaller knurled brass breather that is opened to allow the contents to exit smoothly.

Not to say that the can you found is not a civvies can from the 30's or 40's. Nice finds in any event!


David

[Ed Storey]

There were WWII issue knife, fork and spoon sets (this is British) as well as here is one of the many types of WWII issue Clasp Knives.

[rob love]

Originally Posted by David Dunlop

Hey Derk.

Not sure about this one being a wartime GSW item. I had two, years ago (both went to Don Perry in Edmonton).

From what I recall, they are GSW stamped and dated as per their 2-Gallon and 1-Gallon cans. The cap is the same heavy brass and if memory serves, diagonally across the top of the can from the big brass cap is a much smaller knurled brass breather that is opened to allow the contents to exit smoothly.

Not to say that the can you found is not a civvies can from the 30's or 40's. Nice finds in any event!


David

We have a few of those 4 gallon cans at the museum. However, many of the flimsies had much cheaper tops.

[derk derin]

So there was an issue knife with the fork and spoon! I have seen many issue forks & spoons in the past but never found a knife which made me think that they must have just used their clasp knife.
Thank you Ed for posting that information.
David,
The 4 gallon flimsy is definitely a civilian one by the top handle (flat metal soldered to the can versus the military issue ones that had a wire handle and by the filler opening is a screwed on tin cap versus the sealed cap). I am happy just having the can as I collect gasoline cans too!

As for the first aid metal box I found today it is stencilled on the top;
8-1000
OUTFIT
FIRST AID
GENERAL LARGE
Does anybody have any idea what this first aid kit was for? Vehicle maybe?
Regards,Derk

[David Dunlop]

"I am happy just having the can as I collect gasoline cans too!"

Be honest, Derk. It's not just gasoline cans. You have enough stuff gathered to open your own White Rose Filling Station!

With regards to the First Aid Kit? Was your CMP Ambulance issued with one? If so, I would think it would be a fairly comprehensive kit.


David

[Colin Alford]

Hi Derk,

Nice finds!

I believe that you may be "barking up the wrong tree" by searching for Double-Hex wrenches. I too thought they were correct for CMP/UC Tool kits and collected a few of them but now I believe them to be incorrect.

Approx 4 years ago I started this thread but received no replies:
http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...ad.php?t=18126

I started to believe that this was the correct 5/8" x 3/4" Box Socket Wrench as shown in the Ford Driver's Handbooks but I had no references that listed the part number.

Within the last year I found this old thread by Ian Fawbert with images of his Tool packing list. Notice the first three items listed on "page 1"
http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...ad.php?t=11353

I now have all three of those listed wrenches but I have not found an image or example of the single end 15/16" Box Socket Wrench listed in the Driver's Handbook for the F60L.

I have attached an image of C39Q 17006 next to a Double-Hex 1/2" x 9/16" to show the size comparison. Plus some images of 17006, 17007, and 17009 together.

I do have a spare NOS C39Q 17007 if you're interested.

Colin

[Wayne Hingley]

Originally Posted by derk derin

A picture of the Double-Hex 1/2''-9/16'' box end wrench 181 that I was looking for to add to my CMP 3 ton tool kit list. Now I have to find a Double-Hex 5/8''-3/4'' box end wrench 184.

Derk,
To go with your 181, here are DUBL-HEX wrenches 180, 182 & 183, plus a Ford branded box end wrench.

[derk derin]

Hi Colin,
That is great information and just the kind of answers I have been looking for.I did see your thread with the picture of that wrench but didn't know what it was for either. With that list of Ian's tool packing list showing those wrench numbers definitely makes it clear that the wrenches were Ford marked with those part numbers on it.I am sure they will be harder to find than Dubl-Hex wrenches!
I have GMC marked wrenches that are stamped;MADE IN CANADA BY GRAY. One is a double box end wrench;
15/16'' GMC 5824672 1 1/16'',ALLOY STEEL-MADE IN CANADA
The other two wrenches are a single box end wrench,the one has a bent end;
7/8'' GMC 5824675,ALLOY STEEL MADE IN CANADA BY GRAY
The other one is a straight handle single box end wrench;
1'' GMC 5824676,ALLOY STEEL MADE IN CANADA BY GRAY
I wonder if the Ford wrenches were like these as well built by Gray or if Ford made their own wrenches like the ones you have? Just my luck I have a Ford and am sitting on GMC wrenches!
I would be interested in finding any tools I need to complete my tools list so yes I would be interested in your spare C39Q-17007. Thanks.
Derk

[derk derin]

One more shot of the back of the double box end wrench.

[Colin Alford]

Hi Derk,

To me it is very clear that Gray was producing these wrenches for both Ford and Chev (GMC). The wrenches were produced with Gray's standard dies then the necessary Ford or GMC part numbers were stamped in.

For the GMC marked wrenches it is easier to find written references to them because Chev produced updated CMP Parts Lists until well into 1945 so these lists included the new wrenches (first introduced in 43). Unfortunately for the Ford wrenches I have only found the one reference (Ian's Tool Packing List) that actually gives part numbers for them.

Here is a list of the part numbers with descriptions:
Ford:
C39Q 17006 - 1/2" x 9/16" Box Socket Wrench
C39Q 17007 - 5/8" x 3/4" Box Socket Wrench
C39Q 17009 - 15/16" x 1" Box Socket Wrench

Chev:
5824673 - Wrench, Double end - Double offset Hex Box 15/16" x 1-1/16"
5824674 - Wrench, Single end offset - Hex Box 15/16" approx 14" long
5824675 - Wrench, Single end offset - Hex Box 7/8" approx 14" long
5824676 - Wrench, Single end straight - Hex Box 1" approx 14" long
5824677 - Wrench, Double end - Double offset Hex Box 1/2" x 9/16"
5824678 - Wrench, Double end - single offset Hex Box 15/16" x 1" approx 14" long (small end offset)

I know that C39Q 17006 and 5824677 are exactly the same wrench (pics attached).

The description of 5824678 completely matches an actual C39Q 17009.

By extension I suspect that the single end 15/16" Box Socket wrench (unknown part number) shown in the Ford Driver's Handbooks will be the same as 5824674.

I have attached images of C39Q 17006 next to GMC 5824677 and including a"077 Made in Canada". Somewhere I have a "078 Made in Canada 1/2" x 9/16" but it is currently misplaced. I included the "077" to illustrate the similarity with a normal production wrench.

Also there are images that show C39Q 17009 next to GMC 5824673 and a Gray-Bonney 2894 (this is not a CMP wrench but I believe that it nails down the manufacturer of the others).

The 5th image is a GMC 5824674 15/16" offset wrench.

I have been trying to collect examples of both the Ford and Chev wrenches. Perhaps we could conduct a trade?

For any one else reading this: Can anyone provide more info on Ford Box-End wrenches? I am interested to see pictures of any other types of surviving examples, identify correct part numbers from tool lists, or identify different size combinations from Driver's Handbooks.

Colin

[derk derin]

Colin,
I have no use for the GMC wrenches so would be more than happy to trade! You certainly have done your homework on the wrenches and it is nice to finally figure out what kind of wrenches I need to find!
I did some researching on the internet and came across an article that suggests that the DREADNAUGHT brand of wrenches were actually made by GRAY. Have you heard of this before?
Derk

[rob love]

I too was wondering if there was a Dreadnaught connection. Looking at my selection of Dreadnaught wrenched I note they are very similar in their methods of stamping as the Ford wrenches shown in this thread. Edited to add: I got my answer here: http://progress-is-fine.blogspot.ca/...eadnaught.html

As well, the CMP (or was it carrier?) manual shows the double open end wrench set which is held together by a little metal bracket which tightens up and holds the wrenches together. I picked up one of those sets which had a red bracket instead of khaki, and the wrenches are all dreadnaught.

Derk

Perhaps our favorite surplus store is where you want to be looking for CMP wrenches. There are bucket loads of wrenches out there.

[derk derin]

Rob,
That is the plan this spring is to get out there and find the tools that are hidden away. I was told that the engine starting crank handle assembly for the Ford CMP is a two part item.The first being the bent handle part and the straight rod that fits into the engine crank shaft lock. The two parts connect to each other.
I have also just figured out what other tools I am looking for and will be on the hunt now! I need for my Ford CMP the following items;
-CO1Q-17182,DREADNAUGHT open end wrench 3/8'' x 7/16''
-C39Q-17006,Box end wrench,1/2'' x 9/16''
-C39Q-17007,Box end wrench,5/8'' x 3/4''
-C39Q-17009,Box end wrench,15/16'' x 1''
-CO1Q-17033,Wrench,front hub retaining nut
-C11Q-17038(Ford 3 ton parts list),(C39Q-17038 on Ian's parts list)Ford engine starter crank handle assembly
I just came across an interesting part number in the Ford 3 ton parts list,it's for the doohickey that holds the wrenches together,CLIP,WRENCH CO1Q-17166. They gave it it's own part number!
Two more items that are in the parts list are books.One is listed as;
-CO1Q-17067,BOOK,LOG and;
-SE-93-A,INSTRUCTION BOOK
There is a photo of the log book in the back of CANADA'S FIGHTING VEHICLES EUROPE 1943-45,page 202,lists it as ARMY BOOK 412. Has anybody ever seen one of these books before? This is the only photo I have come across showing what it looks like. The other book listed as INSTRUCTION BOOK. What type of instruction book would I need for my Ford 3 ton CMP? I have 4 different types in my collection. Would any of these be the proper instruction book? There are both books displayed on the CMP tool kit board photo but I suspect the tools are for a Chevy CMP as the instruction book is Chevy and apparently the engine starter crank handle is one piece for CHEVY and Ford is two piece as in page 203 of CANADA'S FIGHTING VEHICLES where they have a list of TYPICAL ''B'' VEHICLE BASIC KIT LIST and in it lists the Handle,Ford,1st type and Extension,Ford,1st type? Thoughts on this? I already have a driver's handbook for FORD 3 ton 4x4 and AMBULANCE but is missing page 21 & 22 so would eventually like to find a complete one.
Derk

[derk derin]

Rob,
I just clicked on your link to the tool website and that is the article I was reading a couple of weeks ago suggesting that Dreadnaught was made by Gray. A great informative article.
Derk

[rob love]

Something I just noticed on the photo of all the tools you just posted is that the pick axe and handle are not the typical Canadian/British military issue with the metal re-enforcing on the handle and the shallower head where the handle goes through. The pick axe and handle shown are more the American style, which is also the style commonly found today here in North America.

Also interesting is that it appears that there is a chain coming off the jacking block. It would save the driver from having to crawl under the vehicle to retrieve the block after changing the tire as well as help positioning the jack and block before raising.

I suspect the little clip that holds the tools together was a fairly standard item with Gray tools. below is a shot of a set of double box offset wrenches using the same clip.

[Chris Suslowicz]

Originally Posted by derk derin

There is a photo of the log book in the back of CANADA'S FIGHTING VEHICLES EUROPE 1943-45,page 202,lists it as ARMY BOOK 412.

"I've got you on a four twelve, too."

"A four-twelve? WHAT'S A FOUR-TWELVE?"

"Overacting. Let's go."



Chris.
(Sorry, couldn't resist.)

[rob love]

Derk

If you google Army Book 412 and then look at images, they are out there. One UK dealer offers reprints. Other sites will show you the contents, which is primarily a vehicle log of repairs and transfers.

http://www.delcampe.net/page/item/id...anguage,E.html

http://www.robvanmeel.nl/?q=content/...ard-cover-1241

[Colin Alford]

Derk,

Dreadnaught wrenches - They were definitely manufactured by Gray (see images)

Instruction Book - The "Instruction Book" series pre-date "Maintenance Manual MB-F1". Does your truck have a "Publications Plate" on the driver's door? If so, it likely lists MB-F1 as the Maintenance Manual and your vehicle was produced after the "Instruction Books" went out of print. I do not know exactly which Ford publication has the code SE-93-A but I think that it is safe to assume that it pre-dates MB-F1 because the Ford publication code SE-93-C appears at the lower left corner of the title page of MB-F1.

Starting Crank - On page 203 of "Ford, Illustrated Army Parts Catalogue, 1940 - 1942" the only vehicle that lists a two piece crank handle is the F8. BB 17036 B Handle - Starting Crank, and 67 17040 Extension - Starting crank. All other vehicles list a single C11Q 17038 Crank Assembly - starting. We both see that Ian Fawbert's list shows a C39Q 17038 - Starting Crank Handle Assembly. My take on this is that aside from F8, A 1 piece crank handle is correct and in 1943 there was a design change to the 1 piece crank handle.

Derk/Rob

Clip, wrench - I too have an NOS Dreadnaught set held together with a red clip. This particular set has the correct size combinations for a Chorehorse tool kit. Similar clips were used for other Gray production. Be careful though, there are different sizes to these clips! I have one that appears to be the same as Rob's picture but it will not fit a CMP stack of wrenches as the "U" shape is too narrow for the width of the largest handle and there is not enough height.

Pick Axes - I personally believe that the only Canadian produced vehicle that should have the British Standard Metal reinforced handle and shallow socket in the head is the Universal Carrier.

My reasoning:
The Carrier part #s
C01UC 100720, Head - Pick (U.K. #JA 0072)
C01UC 100721, Helve - Pick (U.K. #JA-0073)
The Ford CMP part #s
C01Q 17169, Helve - Pick (DND10519)
C01Q 17170 Head - Pick (DND10516)

If these were the same items supplied on Ford vehicles then they should have the same part numbers and certainly a good quantity of other general tools supplied with the carriers had C01Q part numbers.

Also, the Ford Lynx had a pick with the standard Ford C01Q part numbers and attached you will find a period illustration of it (you will also likely note the illustration of the Carrier Walker 925 jack and jack block).

Colin

[derk derin]

Went to the red River vehicle swap meet last weekend and found 4 Champion H-9 spark plugs for my tool kit list.2 were in their original boxes and wrapped in a pamphlet that will display nicely in my spare spark plug tin for the CMP and there were 2 loose ones that will fit into my carrier tool box in the spare spark plug sockets. I also found a Dubl-Hex 15/16'' x 1'' box end wrench.The right combination for the CMP until I get a proper C39Q 17009 wrench to replace it.I also found what looked like a proper 3/16'' x 1/4'' wrench until I got it home and wire brushed it off to find it was the wrong combination!

[derk derin]

I also picked up a nice WWI era stretcher that happened to be Canadian built once I found the brass makers tag.

[Wayne Hingley]

Originally Posted by Colin Alford

I have been trying to collect examples of both the Ford and Chev wrenches.

Hi Colin,
I have a few GMC 5824620 wrenches. If you do not have one, send me a PM, and Ill make sure you get one.

[derk derin]

Well I wound up collecting more GMC wrenches! I was looking through the pile of wrenches in the surplus store in Calgary last weekend where I originally found them hoping this year to find some Ford wrenches thanks to Colin's help but only GMC wrenches were there. I did manage to find one of the 15/16'' GMC 5824674 box end wrench so that may have to go in the tool kit until I find a Ford marked one.

[derk derin]

Another interesting find there was this combination wrench. Marked RCAF and made by Gray Canada. Anyone want to guess as to it's use?
Thanks,Derk

[derk derin]

Wayne,
I also managed to complete a set of Dubl-Hex wrenches (180-185). An antique store in Beausejour,Manitoba this spring had the one's I was missing.

[lynx42]

Originally Posted by derk derin

Another interesting find there was this combination wrench. Marked RCAF and made by Gray Canada. Anyone want to guess as to it's use?
Thanks,Derk

Hi Derk, I reckon they are Magneto spanners for adjusting the magnetos on aircraft engines,

Regards Rick.