"somewhere in England" … part of a RCAF Halifax Squadron

[David Dunlop]

Just to be clear. The three RCAF Squadrons I mentioned in my previous post are by no means the only ones to ever fly the Halifax Mk III. Several were equipped with the Mk III prior to transferring to other theatres and at least one was a training unit somewhere in Yorkshire. It is interesting, however, that most Canadian Halifax Squadrons spent some time at bases in Yorkshire.

On that note, I looked into the licence plate on the photo Dennis posted. In the pre-1951 British Registration system, the 'BV' Plates were issued in Preston, Lancashire, just North of Manchester and not far from the Yorkshire border. Tholthorpe, Yorkshire was a common RCAF Halifax Base and underwent a large rebuild in the early 1940's which the RCAF was involved in. Also, if you look the base up on Wikipedia, there is a photo there of some of the abandoned buildings. One is a long, low brick structure that is a good fit for the ones in the Bedford photos. And Tholthorpe is not that far from Manchester.

David

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by David Dunlop

Just to be clear. The three RCAF Squadrons I mentioned in my previous post are by no means the only ones to ever fly the Halifax Mk III. Several were equipped with the Mk III prior to transferring to other theatres and at least one was a training unit somewhere in Yorkshire. It is interesting, however, that most Canadian Halifax Squadrons spent some time at bases in Yorkshire.

On that note, I looked into the licence plate on the photo Dennis posted. In the pre-1951 British Registration system, the 'BV' Plates were issued in Preston, Lancashire, just North of Manchester and not far from the Yorkshire border. Tholthorpe, Yorkshire was a common RCAF Halifax Base and underwent a large rebuild in the early 1940's which the RCAF was involved in. Also, if you look the base up on Wikipedia, there is a photo there of some of the abandoned buildings. One is a long, low brick structure that is a good fit for the ones in the Bedford photos. And Tholthorpe is not that far from Manchester.

David

David,
To narrow the search down a bit you need to look for evidence in the photos regarding date period. Firstly regarding the car, which I think is a Hillman with the rad grille missing. The registration BV was for Blackburn , Lancs. BV1 -BV9999 reg numbers cover a registration issue period from 1930 to 1939, and at a rough guess the car was probably registered about 1933-35.

Now the Bedford QLT Troopers, I can narrow them down as they have hub sling plates introduced at Chassis no. 26372 and cab hip ring introduced at Chassis no. 29117. QL production records show that 1943 ran from Ch.no. 18162 to 30340, so these wagons were probably photographed in 1944 or later as they have to have been built in last couple of months of 1943. Also some photos show the QL with no headlamp mask and also illuminated 'Coach' sign on the top, so these would be taken post-VE Day by my reckoning, same as car with no headlamp masks.

[Andrew H.]

Are you sure its a Hillman? That looks like the winged Austin sign to me.

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by Andrew H.

Are you sure its a Hillman? That looks like the winged Austin sign to me.

Andrew,
The Hillman badge also had wings on it, not only that but the bonnet louvers match a c.1934 Hillman Minx.

[David Dunlop]

Richard. With regards to the British motor vehicle registration system, am I correct in thinking that when a particular plate code references a given location, that location is merely the central registration office for a given territory, and that territory could be quite expansive in some situations?

In the case of this Hillman, could the territory assigned the BV plates, include part of Yorkshire, or do the registration territories never cross county borders?

The more I look at these photos, the more it strikes me how relaxed everyone looks. Not much tension showing in the faces at all. Seems more and more likely they could be post VE Day snaps.

Back the Hillman again, does it have a white painted front bumper? Wasn't a set of full white bumpers, or at least white painted bumper ends, a fairly common blackout practice during the war? Was there an official end to blackout conditions post war, or did it just happen?

David

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by David Dunlop

Richard. With regards to the British motor vehicle registration system, am I correct in thinking that when a particular plate code references a given location, that location is merely the central registration office for a given territory, and that territory could be quite expansive in some situations?

In the case of this Hillman, could the territory assigned the BV plates, include part of Yorkshire, or do the registration territories never cross county borders?

The more I look at these photos, the more it strikes me how relaxed everyone looks. Not much tension showing in the faces at all. Seems more and more likely they could be post VE Day snaps.

Back the Hillman again, does it have a white painted front bumper? Wasn't a set of full white bumpers, or at least white painted bumper ends, a fairly common blackout practice during the war? Was there an official end to blackout conditions post war, or did it just happen?

David

David,
Registrations of motor vehicles back then were done with local or county councils, so in this case it was Blackburn in Lancashire. The number stayed with the vehicle wherever it ended up in the country, but could be transferred to another vehicle. In those days there were more local registration offices, they then were reduced to county councils, and eventually centralised in present times under a central government agency.

My mother had been a policewoman before I cam along and she taught me at an early age, the registration letters and where the vehicle originated from, which still comes in useful when looking at older vehicles.

So back to the car, which I am sure is a 1934 Hillman Minx, its registration does not tell you too much other than it was from the next county, if you are guessing the picture was taken in Yorkshire. White bumper, sometimes white edging to the front wings. According to a quick search the blackout restrictions were lifted on 30th April 1945.

[Dennis Cardy]

Richard and David,
Very interesting reading what you have posted..So much so...
Just back from making a return trip to the CMF archive.

Took a second look at Mc Caw's photo album.

Can find no mention of what base he was on. He does record photo locations when training back in Canada ….and Oversea's at #1 A.T.U. at Wigton and #20 O.T.U. at Lossiemouth …both in Scotland.

But when he arrived on OP's…no more mention in the album of which Sqn or which airfield. I can only assume he did that on purpose.

I guess the next step, now we have it narrowed down to 408 or 420 is to contact the Halifax group back in Ontario…and see if they recognize the nose markings.

In the meantime here he is with Sqn mates…Would that be a "Tilly"