VICKERS MK6B's resto

[colin jones]

Mike, thanks for the info.
For those who have or are doing a carrier, I'm sure you know just how hard it is to get the suspension rods out in one piece. With all the carriers I've done, I think I'd be lucky to have got anymore than 10-20% out as they are generally so seized it's near impossible to move them even with heat. What I have found to be the easiest for me is to just cut the rod between the springs and at least get them out in good condition. The rod itself is only case hardened so it can be drilled just like mild steel. I went through with a 5/8 drill about half way each side. Just a tip if you do this, don't drill fast and use fluid because you might snap a drill inside. After I drill mine (8-10 mins each) I used my oxy/acc and just cut part way down. The air chisel got the rest out very easy and never damaged the ball part at all.

[colin jones]

All suspension parts are cleaned, blasted and ready for primer. I only have the last 3 bogies to get apart and the wheels get picked up on Saturday for some new rubber. It has taken be the last week to get all this done. It may not look like a lot of work but without drilling and using the oxy I'd be no where near finished. Big relief

[Dave lean]

Col' , I think you are obsessive compulsive.. Main Springs all lined up, Secondary Springs all lined up, Ball units all lined up, Vickers Tanks all lined up......

[colin jones]

Oh! I never noticed that

[Mike Cecil]

The medical profession might call it Obsessive Compulsive DISorder (OCD) .... but I am convinced that, in your and my case, Col, it is Obsessive Compulsive ORDER, and a good thing to have as a restorer, too!

Mike

[David Herbert]

I agree with Mike - OCO is a good thing, keeps things tidy and you can find things without hunting for them. looks very impressive too.

David

[Tony Smith]

And an excellent way to compare the condition of the items. Note that the Outer Springs all have a similar free length, while the Inner Springs have an assorted variety of free lengths, indicating that some some may have sagged or lost tension.

It might be worthwhile considering if some of those Inners should be replaced with new coils to ensure a level stance. If they are all the same rate, they will do their bit to share the load with the Outers. If an Inner has lost tension and is a lesser spring rate, it will lead to premature failure of the paired Outer which then needs to bear a heavier load at that suspension station.

[The Bedford Boys]

Tony, just like a Carrier, the springs are different lengths front to back to make the vehicle ride level. The blokes at Armoured Engineering in the UK that recently restored a Vickers for Bovington put the springs in the wrong way and it sat very much nose down. Its since been corrected and rides as it should

[Dennis Cardy]

Colin,
Have been following your astonishing Mk 6 restoration with great interest.
And two of them to boot.
Me and a lot of others I'm sure…can hardly wait for video's of them running.

I have a question if I may.

After taking some Deuce shot's at the Borden Ontario museum for the G749 thread, I did some wandering around and came across this.
I'd forgotten they even had one. (Recently restored I'm told ….but I do not know to what extent.)
I know a bit about CMP's…but this is way out of my area.

Is it the same as your's ?…and were there variations between the Canadian and Aussie ones..?

Thanks,
Dennis.

[colin jones]

Hi Dennis, I was aware of that one in Canada and it certainly looks to be quite original too. Mine is actually a MKV1A and the one there is a MKV1B. There would not be very much difference between them apart from the front engine covers. As far as I know about the MKV1A/B's left in the world, there are two in the UK, one in the US three in Australia and a wreck in Egypt. There might be another wreck somewhere. I think Canada only had a handful so they are very lucky they still have an example left. I just noticed in the pictures that the tracks were very loose and I can see why. They have assembled the rear bogies opposite way around and have concealed the tensioner brackets. Also the rear wheels are facing the wrong way as well. I don't know how they could have missed that during rebuild but I'm sure they would be well aware of it. I'm glad you are enjoying this thread.
Colin.

[Dennis Cardy]

Hi Colin,
Thanks for your prompt reply.

That's an interesting comment about the track and suspension.
I live out in British Columbia and am just visiting family and friends in Ontario.

Perhaps someone on the forum who is more knowledgable about the situation could provide some helpful insite.

Dennis.

[colin jones]

All my small componentry is now together. One set of wheels is away getting blasted and nice new rubber. I now need to concentrate on the bogie units to sand blast them and reassemble ready for the wheels.
I know they are all lined up but that's how I keep tabs on what I need. I'd keep my children lined up if they'd stay there!

[Dave lean]

After reading through some of the replies since my OCD comments, I think some have misunderstood my humour. The point I was making is in the last part of my comment.. "Vickers Tanks all lined up". Let me know lads if this needs further explanation?
I'll catch up with you tomorrow Col.

[David Dunlop]

Colin.

Purely a neophyte curiosity question.

Leaf springs that have sagged and failed over time can be re-arched. Can coil springs which have similarly failed over time be restored in any way at a shop? Just wondering what sort of options (if any) might be available to you with your two suspension sets.

David

[colin jones]

Hi David, I'm sure they can be re tensioned. I am however, quite fortunate to have some NOS spring sets to replace any that are beyond use. Should they need to of course but as these tanks will never be fully loaded for war conditions I won't be as critical, but I do want them to sit level though. I am going to make some spring compressors that will give me some indication what they are like.
Colin.

[David Dunlop]

Good to know, Colin. I don't want to see you porpoising down the road when out for a simple Sunday morning drive one day. One could spill a lot of very fine coffee that way.

David

[colin jones]

David, thank you so much for your concern. Of course, one would not need a "Porpoise" to go for a drive in one of these tanks I think I meant purpose or perhaps poypoise
On another matter, I purchased a Torque multiplier for a staggering $85 thinking it would be a waste of money. These hand operated tools have some serious power. As I was turning the handle, I thought it was getting a bit tight and I snapped the head off a 3/4" bolt and I could not believe the power to do that, and it was by hand. Even my 3/4 impact would not move it.
The other photos are the suspension cups and they are not the normal graphite ones. These are some kind of fabric and are in all the Vickers ones. Is this just a UK style and has anyone else got the same.

[Ben]

Great job Colin.

The earlier British carrier suspension parts I have stripped had a similar type of cup. They are sometimes more complete and look a little like asbestos.

Do you have enough replacement cups?

Ben

[colin jones]

Hi Ben and yes I do have enough cups thanks.
I have made some reasonable progress on my suspension and again it is almost a rest on its own.

[colin jones]

It is great that there is new seals available to suit and quite cheap too. The bogies are fitted and waiting for wheels and I have started the rear leaf spring resto as well.

[David Dunlop]

I can almost smell the exhaust fumes now, Colin.

David

[colin jones]

David, it's getting closer by the day. I engine chap told me the other day that the top of the engine was off and the head is totally referbishable, however there was water in two of the pistons but it has liners in the block. He said after it is pulled apart and fully inspected he won't give me an answer until then. I will probably be looking to install the engine around October sometime if all goes well.
I have done all the rear springs and installed the first one. That is certainly a bit tricky to put tension on the leaf, line up the hole and get the pin in. As I found out, that too requires a sequence for installation. I have also installed 6 wheels on Bowerbird and waiting on my new ones.

[David Dunlop]

Am I correct, Colin, in assuming the rear end of the leaf spring is free floating and slides under a retaining pin setup in the rearmost bracket? That would mean it is just the front half of the leaf spring doing all the work would it not?

David

[David Dunlop]

OK. So I sit out on the patio for a bit with my morning pail of tea and the leaf spring arrangement suddenly makes sense to me.

I shouldn't have slept through so many Physics classes!


david

[Lynn Eades]

A visitor from a foreign world would deduce the design is either of British or French origin.

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

"Bowerbird"...is this an original name? Has the other one a name too?

Amazing work on one of my most favorite vehicles. I'm in awe.

[colin jones]

David, sometimes we all need to sit on the porch and just have a ponder, then things can become much clearer . It is actually quite a good system. As there is no fixed sprocket or idler system on the back, there is nothing to stop the bogie from being able to fully spin and destroy the mudguard. The more I see and understand the complexities of these machines it give a greater appreciation of the design that goes into any and all machinery.
Bruce, Bowerbird is the original name that was given at the time and was also still readable before I blasted the hull. I did do a clear stencil before that was done so I can replace it back to the original location. The other tank name is Wombat.

[colin jones]

Originally Posted by Dennis Cardy

Colin,
Have been following your astonishing Mk 6 restoration with great interest.
And two of them to boot.
Me and a lot of others I'm sure…can hardly wait for video's of them running.

I have a question if I may.

After taking some Deuce shot's at the Borden Ontario museum for the G749 thread, I did some wandering around and came across this.
I'd forgotten they even had one. (Recently restored I'm told ….but I do not know to what extent.)
I know a bit about CMP's…but this is way out of my area.

Is it the same as your's ?…and were there variations between the Canadian and Aussie ones..?

Thanks,
Dennis.

I sent the museum a email about their Vickers tank and just got a reply back today.
Their tank is complete but in order for them to have it displayed inside they had to drain all fluids. The director told me that because of this, the tank is not in running condition. I asked if someone could possibly take some photos of the inside of the tank for me which I would be happy to have paid for but he said because of safety reasons it had been welded shut and was not able to help with my request. That Vickers would have been the perfect one for reference as it, I assume has not been touched inside and is probably as original inside as the day it was made.
Is there anyone here that has any influence over there or possibly know someone that does. Photos of the inside of that tank would be invaluable to me.
Colin.

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

Originally Posted by colin jones

I sent the museum a email about their Vickers tank and just got a reply back today.
Their tank is complete but in order for them to have it displayed inside they had to drain all fluids. The director told me that because of this, the tank is not in running condition. I asked if someone could possibly take some photos of the inside of the tank for me which I would be happy to have paid for but he said because of safety reasons it had been welded shut and was not able to help with my request. That Vickers would have been the perfect one for reference as it, I assume has not been touched inside and is probably as original inside as the day it was made.
Is there anyone here that has any influence over there or possibly know someone that does. Photos of the inside of that tank would be invaluable to me.
Colin.

Welded shut??!!???? That is so typical of museums in general and military museums in particular. You'd think with a vehicle of this rarity (maybe four known survivors?) they'd be somewhat sensitive to helping out a restoration such as yours. If not, then what's the purpose of even preserving the artifact in the first place? I do note that the Whippet and Renault next to the Vickers are both wide open and I will confess to crawling in that exact Vickers. They had left it wide open to the weather for several years while they were preparing the new museum building, that is after removing it from the concrete pad where it has sat since the end of the war. Yes, the interior is very complete and no, I didn't have my camera with me.

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by colin jones

I sent the museum a email about their Vickers tank and just got a reply back today.
Their tank is complete but in order for them to have it displayed inside they had to drain all fluids. The director told me that because of this, the tank is not in running condition. I asked if someone could possibly take some photos of the inside of the tank for me which I would be happy to have paid for but he said because of safety reasons it had been welded shut and was not able to help with my request. That Vickers would have been the perfect one for reference as it, I assume has not been touched inside and is probably as original inside as the day it was made.
Is there anyone here that has any influence over there or possibly know someone that does. Photos of the inside of that tank would be invaluable to me.
Colin.

When I was seeking information of internal turret fittings on a MkVIA, a Canadian member of the forum went to check the tank out, it was outside at the time, and if I recall, there was a wasps nest inside and thought it unwise to try and open the turret up. Assume this is the same tank. The detail I needed was I think the signalling lamp which pushed up through the turret roof. I do not think it was present in the Puckapunyal one.