Those elusive green reflectors......

[Bob Carriere]

......"that would be a lot of reflectors."

Plus ALL the spare in stores.....

Only got one set which I obtained from BCA.

Cheers

[rob love]

So I had a quick search for reflector info in the Design Branch records, and here is the total information. These were found in the Self propelled MT chassis under the Blackout lighting section:

"In March 1941, the first issue of specifiction OA62 covering blackout Equipment was released. This issue specified the following features: ..............

(i) Green Reflectors were set in the Front Bumper, 2 ins from the outer sides of the bumper, to indicate the approximate width of the vehicle.

Various modifications were subsequently incorporated into production which resulted in the following: .................

(h) Reflectors in the bumpers were deleted. "

[r.morrison]

So, as I was under the impression, they were reflectors for vehicle width and not just to show another vehicle coming down the road in the opposite direction. I would think this possibly had to do with "blackouts" on the road. Learned something new tonight.....Robert

[David Dunlop]

Has anyone with these reflectors ever tested them in the dark, mounted in the front bumper to see how well they actually work? If you think about it, they probably need some fairly strong direct light to do their job. A normal, oncoming vehicle headlight? Perfect! An oncoming blackout headlamp...?

They are cute little accessories but in the real driving world of the 1940's during the war:

- They are located in a restrictive position that is a dirt magnet.
- Just how much dust or dirt needs to accumulate on them before they stop reflecting?
- Just how far up the 'priority list' for a combat CMP driver would cleaning these reflectors be?

They strike me as the brainchild idea of some desk jockey somewhere in the system who had no real sense, or experience of the actual wartime operating environment. On a home base, paved road, blackout environment, these reflectors may have been maintainable, but realistically, just how many CMP's actually served in that type of environment?

Once the orders went out for addition of these reflectors, bumpers were probably changed and the new ones introduced into the system in the usual 'after SN XXX use YYY', but when the reflectors were deleted, the front bumper assemblies were probably in the system for a very long time. At the production end of the system, reflector bumpers may very well have been used into the first few years of Cab 13 production. In fact, it may have been more efficient on the assembly lines to simply keep stamping these bumpers out until the equipment making them needed overhaul/maintenance. From our position today, finding a reflector bumper on a Cab 13, or even late Cab 12 CMP should not be a green light (sorry about that) to try and find and install the reflectors. They very likely never existed on the vehicle in the first place.

Just a thought. To mount these reflectors you need the large hole on the front face of the bumper, along with two mounting screw holes- one each on upper and lower edges. If the two screw holes were a drilled item rather than punched, maybe that step was easy to delete in production as it might have been a secondary processing step at another work station from the stamping tool for the larger reflector openings on the face of the bumper. Maybe there are some front bumpers out there with the large reflector openings stamped in them, but no upper and lower mounting screw holes. That would confirm a sequential phaseout sequence on the production line.

David

[Alex van de Wetering]

Awesome find Robert ....now hoping more will turn up. Or find a complete lamp or mirror at the thrift shop that has several of them fitted

it seems that the very early cab 11 made in 1940 may not have had them and appeared in the 1941 series and the subsequent cab 12 model into 1942.

"In March 1941,........................
(i) Green Reflectors were set in the Front Bumper.

That's interesting...My C8 does have the holes for the bumper jewels and also had the holes on the fenders for marker lights. My truck was built in the second half of 1940, so based on the info above this could mean the jewels were retrofitted.....which makes sence as the small holes in the top and bottom of the bumper are not in line and somewhat crudely drilled.

I also had a quick look on the Servicepub Factory Photo CD and it seems all Cab 12's have the holes in the bumper and the Cab 11's do not. Which does indeed confirm Bob and Rob's info.

Alex

[rob love]

Back in the day, when I restored my KL welding lorry, I picked up a pair of those green reflectors from Brian Asbury for the princely sum of about $20 each. To a guy with a baby and a mortgage living on the early 1990s frozen Corporal's salary, that was a princely sum. So you can imagine my horror when I noticed one day that that one of them had been smashed by a stone. By that point they had become a lot harder to find, but I did replace that reflector. After that, I was a lot more cautious but really, what could you do?

I think that if I were to do it over again, I would have canvas bumper end covers made up which would be removed once the truck made it to it's show.

[Ian McCallum]

I had to have a set of front and rear bumpers made during the restoration of my C11AS. This differed from the CDF in that it had the rear mounted spare wheel and from the limited photos available it was also curved like the front one in order to protect the rear wheel, I assume. From the original photo you can clearly see the holes in the rear bumper and I determined both front and rear were possibly identical. On making first the front one and offering it up to the bumper irons not only did it fit but was level with the extremity of the spare wheel, hence I made an identical one for the rear. You will see from the photo, plus several others I have, there only appears to be one towing/tie down ring, so again replicated this. I also took the opportunity to utilise the holes for a pair of flat red reflectors, available in the UK at most bike/car shops to provide the legal requirement.

Unfortunately I could not upload photos as I was getting information that a 'SECURITY TOKEN' was required?

[Bob Carriere]

Ian

If you send me $5 dollars per token I can can send you some spare one.

I would dearly love to see what you are talking about.

If you are short of cash just shrink you photos to less than 1.5 mb and they will get posted. Not sure what photo software you are using but I use ACDSee and it is very easy. Pays for itself in spare tokens!!!!!!!

If you are stuck re-sizing...... send them to my home address and will shrink them and post for you.

Cheers

[r.morrison]

Amen Mr Carriere....amen!

[Ian McCallum]

OOPS! My fault did not shrink photos sufficiently, try again

[Ian McCallum]

Cant speak for all models but certainly C11AS/CDF models had them fitted. Couple of CDF's clearly sporting them, dust and all!

[r.morrison]

Dear David: I read your entry into the subject of the "green reflectors" and I am some what puzzled by you response. Almost a hatred for green jewels (jewellery) placed on a vehicle designed for war. My whole entry into this subject, was that it has been a "question" put forth by various qualified members of this forum over the years from all different countries. Numerous inquiries, including The Late Great "Salesman Bob" Mosely, posed this question a number of years ago, including other colours, as well as the green. Bob Carriere brought forth some great insight from the possible British stand point. AND again....the question is there.
As to whether they were used or not and on what models, has seemed to be brought forth very clearly by the insight of numerous members contributing to the question. To make a statement "from our position today", I take it you speak for all members of the forum or from a recognised "military think tank in Manitoba".
From a point of authenticity, I and a few other members would really like to know. To say that "they very likely never existed in the vehicle in the first place".....well, I find that a bit much of an assumption.
I have 2 original units that were screwed onto the rear of my 1944 HUP ZL, that and 2 tail lights which look like they came from a model "T". Based on the info provide here.....obviously wrong!
Now, I would clearly state to all members of this forum, that I am not anywhere near the CMP expert that a lot of the members are. However Mssrs Carriere and Love have brought forth some very very good and qualified info, as well as even more questions, queries and insight as to this area.
I personally don't care about whether they collected dust and dirt, whether they actually worked as for what they were designed . The information I look for is 1/Did they exist? 2/ What were their purpose? 3/ When did they bring them in and when did they phase them out? 4/ Do they look better on a Chandelier or a CMP bumper? (sorry couldn't help throwing that in)!

Anyway David, that's just my 2 cents on a simple on going question that has popped up over the years. Sorry if it has upset you.

Kind regards.....Robert