Vickers Utility Tractors in the Netherlands East Indies

[Stellan Bojerud (RIP)]

As I have understood 50 Vickers Utility Tractors were ordered from Familleureux factory in Belgium by the Netherlands East Indies Army (KNIL) in Oct 1939. This was followed by a second order for 30 more vehicles in Dec 1939.

The first 20 reached Java in April 1940. Another 30 were scheduled for delivery in May 1940 but overrun by the German invasion of Belgium.

So it seems as only 20 were received by the KNIL. They were used as tractors for 47 mm M/1935 Böhler anti-tank guns made in Austria.

So my questions are: 1) Weight, engine, speed, measurements e t c. 2) What happned with the tractors captured by the Germans? Did they use them or hand them over to their allies?

Reg nr D 9947 (D=Preanger district/Bandoeng). The tractor probably serving in APLA 2 (2nd Heavy Weapons Coy) garrisoned in Tjimahi, W Java.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Stellan Bojerud
2) What happned with the tractors captured by the Germans? Did they use them or hand them over to their allies?

Stellan, I suspect they were put into German service together with the Vickers Utility Tractors of the Belgian Army. They had at least three versions in service: two infantry (with different track bases) and one cavalry version. I guess the Germans did not know they captured Vickers Utility Tractors manufactured for the KNIL, and regarded them as just another Belgian Army type. The German Army designated the Belgian Vickers Utility Tractors as Artillerie Schlepper VA 601(b) and used them as light artillery/supply tractors.

To prove this thesis we now have to hunt for a picture of a KNIL tractor with its typical side benches in German service!

HTH,
Hanno

A Belgian tractor serving with the German Army after its capture:

Source: http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/bel/Belgium.htm

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally posted by Stellan Bojerud
As I have understood 50 Vickers Utility Tractors were ordered from Familleureux factory in Belgium by the Netherlands East Indies Army (KNIL) in Oct 1939. This was followed by a second order for 30 more vehicles in Dec 1939.

The first 20 reached Java in April 1940. Another 30 were scheduled for delivery in May 1940 but overrun by the German invasion of Belgium.

2) What happned with the tractors captured by the Germans? Did they use them or hand them over to their allies?

Stellan;

Don't know if this helps, but I came across the following two photos of Captured Belgian licenced Vickers-Armstrong Utility Tractors in German service, vehicle designation: Art Schl VA 601(b). Two versions used, one with rear seats and the other without.

Version in photos: with rear seats

Photo # 1 (Top) - shows a Art Schl VA 601(b) with rear seats folded up carrying mail and
Photo # 2 (Bottom) - shows a Art Schl VA 601(b) with rear seats folded down being used has an artillery tractor towing a 5cm PaK38

Hope this helps

Cheers

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Mark W. Tonner
Version in photos: with rear seats

Photo # 1 (Top) - shows a Art Schl VA 601(b) with rear seats folded up carrying mail and Photo # 2 (Bottom) - shows a Art Schl VA 601(b) with rear seats folded down being used has an artillery tractor towing a 5cm PaK38

Mark, it helps enormously as I think you just proved my thesis! Whereas the Belgian types did have fixed sides, some with rear facing seats (see pics here), as far as I can tell the Vickers Utility Tractors in your pictures are the KNIL-type with their typical sideways-facing troop seats (referred to as "rear seats" in your captions):

Source: http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/hol/Netherlands.htm

May I ask where you found those pictures you posted?

Thanks,
Hanno

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
May I ask where you found those pictures you posted?

Hanno;

- I agree - the seats are 'sideways facing' - I just quoted the reference in the publication - 'rear-seats'

- In a book I have in my Library - ENCYCLOPEDIA OF GERMAN TANKS OF WORLD WAR TWO, A COMPLETE ILLUSTRATED DIRECTORY OF GERMAN BATTLE TANKS, ARMOURED CARS, SELF-PROPELLED GUNS AND SEMI-TRACKED VEHICLES, 1933-1945; by Peter Chamberlain and Hilary I. Doyle; published by Arms & Armour Press, 1978 - in the chapter dealing with captured equipments in German service.

Glad I could help

Cheers

P.S. - it also contains a picture of the other version with no seats, also employed as an artillery tractor.

[Stellan Bojerud (RIP)]

Most interesting! Yes Mark, it was what we needed - and thanks Hanno for the KNIL pic.

Hanno, I beleive the picture you posted is from Waterlooplein, Weltevreden. Possibly Aug 1940. In 1941 the crew should be wearing steel-helmets.

Stellan

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
The German Army designated the Belgian Vickers Utility Tractors as Artillerie Schlepper VA 601(b) and used them as light artillery/supply tractors.

Here's another pic of an Artillerie Schlepper VA 601(b) in use by the German Army (picture was recently auctioned on eBay).

[hansheesakkers]

"Beute-Kraftfahrzeuge und -Panzer der deutschen Wehrmacht" Walter J. Spielberger.
page 49. The Utility tractor was used as a mail vehicle.....The vehicles, originaly built in Belgium, were ordered bu the Dutch Colonial Army. Ready built vehicles were taken over for german forces and later production was finished for german forces. The picture accompaniing the text is the same as shown at no. 1 "the post delivery vehicle.

So the germans knew which vehicles were from the durch order!!
"Deutsche grundlichkeit"!

[Stellan Bojerud (RIP)]

Found this Belgian tractor with 47 mm AT-gun.

[nuyt]

Stellan, your last picture I think shows the infantry type: no rear seats as in the Cavalry type and the narrow early tracks.
See also here:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/threa...eid=1104143868
Regards,
Nuyt

[hansheesakkers]

Since a year the military museum at Bronbeek - Arnhem has restored a VCL in its collection. At tows the Rheinmetall 20 mm A.A. gun. It was received from Indonesia as a gift.

[nuyt]

Hi Hans,

A present from Indonesia, eh?

Hmm, mabe we can ask them an Overvalwagen (or two)

Nuyt

Overvalwagens?

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by hansheesakkers
It was received from Indonesia as a gift.

Hans, do you have pictures of this VCL tractor?

Nuyt, besides this VCL tractor, the Netherlands has received a Stuart tank and Universal Carrier from Indonesia, so maybe they are willing to get us an Overvalwagen too!
:idea:
And what about an Alvis-Straussler AC3D?!?

H.

[hansheesakkers]

No I haven't got a picture, I only have a very bad and damaged print from a newspaper but there is a nice colopicture on internet:

www.warmuseums.nl/gal/091gal.htm

try this!

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by hansheesakkers
www.warmuseums.nl/gal/091gal.htm try this!

It looks like it's a real Dutch VCL(!)



Thanks Hans!

[hansheesakkers]

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
And what about an Alvis-Straussler AC3D?!?

Perhaps if we ask them in a very polite way, after al I am told that one of these vehicles was still in use in the sixties as a police vehile, so there might be one in a depot or museum. there is also a Bofors 75 mm mountain gun (modified with airpressure tyres) in the national army museum. So don't give up hope yet.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by hansheesakkers
Perhaps if we ask them in a very polite way, after al I am told that one of these vehicles was still in use in the sixties as a police vehile, so there might be one in a depot or museum.

Hmm, do you have any contacts in the right places to see if one would indeed be stashed away? On the other hand, if they still had one, I'd guess it would be in the Armed Forces Museum at Jakarta?

there is also a Bofors 75 mm mountain gun (modified with airpressure tyres) in the national army museum. So don't give up hope yet.

This one?

See http://sus3041.web.infoseek.co.jp/outside/jmm/jmm.htm for another picture.

H.

[nuyt]

Hanno, thanks for that link. There's a lot of KNIL stuff in there...

If my Japanese is correct the 2-pounder guns were 43 mm. Did not know that...

Nuyt

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by ericnuyt
Hanno, thanks for that link. There's a lot of KNIL stuff in there...

Sten Boye Poulsen from Denmark sent me the link - lots of KNIL stuff there, and great to see the Indonesians are taking good care of it. Look at this Cat!


Source: http://sus3041.web.infoseek.co.jp/outside/jjam/jjam.htm
Location: Museum Dirgantara Mandala Yogyakarta, Indonesia

H.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by ericnuyt
There's a lot of KNIL stuff in there...

Wait, have you seen this webpage already?
http://sus3041.web.infoseek.co.jp/outside/jjmm/jjmm.htm

H.

[Stellan Bojerud (RIP)]

A 75 mm M/1911 field gun. The Indonesian text cannot be right because the guns of this type made by Bofors were delivered in 1919.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
Sten Boye Poulsen form Denmark sent me the link - lots of KNIL stuff there, and great to see the Indonesians are taking good care of it. Look at this Cat!

Source: http://sus3041.web.infoseek.co.jp/outside/jjam/jjam.htm
Location: Museum Dirgantara Mandala Yogyakarta, Indonesia

Here's the ID of this Cat (source):

PBY-5 Catalina Bureau Number 46539

Wartime History Unknown.

Restoration & Display
Acquired from American collector Gary Larkins in 1989. Bruce Fenstermaker arranged for its shipped to the Indonesian Air Force Museum in late 1989 as part of a a trade for export privileges for several Japanese aircraft at Babo.

Restored by the Indonesian Air Force Museum over five months, it is painted in Indonesian Air Force markings with PB 505 on the nose, representing a PBY used after the war for costal patrols.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

VCL utility tractor for the KNIL, official portrait pictures from the Tank Museum files.



click on picture for a large size scan

[Hanno Spoelstra]

One more ex-KNIL Vickers Utility Tractor in German use.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

A Belgian tractor serving with the German Army after its capture:

Source: http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/bel/Belgium.htm

Here´s the same picture as featured on Life Magazine @ Google:

German soldier in unidentified tank. This picture was taken sometime during the German Western European campaign. Unsure if it is 1940 or 1939.

[wim sikkelbein]

another one fresh off the "keep them rolling" mailing list

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by wim sikkelbein

another one fresh off the "keep them rolling" mailing list

Excellent Wim, thanks!

Here´s another one, this time a Belgian Army Vickers Utility Tractor, with other weaponry being turned in to the German captors, 29 May 1940.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Utility Tractor 1932 Personnel Carrier



Caption: "photograph captioned 1934 Belgium Familleureux. The sides seem to hinge and drop down to provide leg rests for the passengers who are carried on the two sides. This vehicle was used by the Dutch Army to tow a 47mm anti tank gun, the crew riding on the tractor"

Source: http://tankdevelopment.blogspot.co.u...l-carrier.html

David Reasoner: "The KNIL in the Netherlands East Indies ordered 80 of these tractors from Familleureux in Belgium. Unfortunately, the German invasion and occupation of Belgium meant that only 20 or 21 of the order were actually delivered, the remainder being confiscated by the Germans. The KNIL used them for towing both the 47mm Boehler antitank gun and the Rheinmetall 2cm Flak30 antiaircraft gun."

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Survivor for sale on Milweb (no interest with the seller).

Could this be one of the tractors originally ordered by the Dutch?

Vickers Utility Tractor Schlepper VA601B
Found at a collection in a barn in Germany.
He had bought it in the sixties at a scrap dealer near Monte Casino, famous for its Battle around the monastry.
It is a Vickers Utility Tractor, only about 300 ever made.
Ordered by the Belgian army and the Dutch army just before WW2.
They all were confiscated by the German army and used by them throughout WW2.
There are 4 known of existence in the world and this should then be number 5.
These museums have an example in their collection: Museum Bronbeek, Arnhem (KNIL-versie met een 20-mm luchtafweerkanon) Koninklijk Museum van het Leger en de Krijgsgeschiedenis, Brussel Musée des Blindés de Saumur, Parijs Museo di Guerra per la pace “Diego de Henriquez”, Triëst.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Stellan Bojerud (RIP)

As I have understood 50 Vickers Utility Tractors were ordered from Familleureux factory in Belgium by the Netherlands East Indies Army (KNIL) in Oct 1939. This was followed by a second order for 30 more vehicles in Dec 1939.

The first 20 reached Java in April 1940. Another 30 were scheduled for delivery in May 1940 but overrun by the German invasion of Belgium.

So it seems as only 20 were received by the KNIL. They were used as tractors for 47 mm M/1935 Böhler anti-tank guns made in Austria.

So my questions are: 1) Weight, engine, speed, measurements e t c. 2) What happned with the tractors captured by the Germans? Did they use them or hand them over to their allies?

Reg nr D 9947 (D=Preanger district/Bandoeng). The tractor probably serving in APLA 2 (2nd Heavy Weapons Coy) garrisoned in Tjimahi, W Java.

Attachment 2260

A better version of this picture:

Caption: "One of the few anti-tank guns that the KNIL (Royal Netherlands East Indies Army) had in an armor and anti-aircraft department Circa 1938; this piece 4.7 cm behind a tractor type Utility of Carden Lloyd. Dutch East Indies (1939) Source: NIMH"