Info needed: correct colours for WWII Aust vehicles

[Mike K]

Laurie Wrights articles on the Aust. wartime vehicle paint , written by a guy who was there and noted things down, is eye opening . He indicates that the official orders re: painting were ignored to a large degree and it was common to see vehicles in the same unit finished in different theatre colours . If a unit OC was not that fussed about paint then so be it.

http://anzacsteel.hobbyvista.com/oth...siecamlw_1.htm

All this pedantic talk of colours means nil in terms of a tropical environment , mainly because the paint supplied to the DD back then was crap and made to a minimal standard.

[Lang]

Mike

A lot of things on the forum point to people who have never been in the military thinking minute rules laid down are strictly adhered to.

Many rules and instructions, being quoted as justification for something happening, were, and still are, completely ignored (if the troops are ever aware of them). The military is a living working being subject to all the forces of the general community and many instructions are treated with "better things to do with our time" response.

A case in point is reenactors dressed to perfection in all the prescribed uniform and kit of the period. If you look carefully any photo of a group of 10 soldiers in the field, not on parade, of any army, it will show 10 different variations in dress and equipment and not one of them down to the last button shown in the equipment manual photos.

The current discussion on paint colour and schemes is an academic exercise as you will be hard pushed to find photos of any working WW2 vehicle in the field correctly marked down to the last red nut on the CMP wheels let alone a whole gaggle of them going somewhere all identical. They may seem identical but start to look at how the tarps are tied down, where names, numbers and plates are, lettering style and size, whether directional tyres are on the right way etc etc.

The longer they are in units, the greater the local changes and differences from any updated regulations which are generally ignored or at least delayed until convenient.

We need the researchers to give us the background but what is written is far from what is done.

Lang

[Mike Cecil]

Hi Gina,

Add this to your 'mix' (no pun intended ... well maybe just a little) of information about the use of KG3 (whatever that shade of 'green' actually was after a week in the sun, rain, mud & dust ... hey, that last word-pairing looks like a good title for a book!!):

3MD VRD Instruction No.12 dated 21 February 1942, part 9 states :

(9) Upon receipt of completed vehicle, Workshop section to repaint in Khaki Green No.3 dull finish, Army number to be painted on centre rear & each side of bonnet in white 3.5 inch block numerals. (my bolding emphasis).


Mike

[Jacques Reed]

Hi Gina et al,

As a person who is not good at researching, I have followed this thread with great interest and appreciate the hard digging people have done in the archives. I also appreciate the first hand experiences of those who have served and observed.

For my part the various discussions has reassured me that it is not essential if one does not get the colour exactly "right". The variables in paint application, supply, and all the other factors are so numerous that I believe now if the colour is in the ballpark that is good enough.

I still think, however, if one can start with a close as possible match to the original standards that is the best starting place. At least that takes out some of the uncontrollable factors. That was the basis of my decision last year to repaint my truck in Florite KG3 from the current Australian Army Olive Drab colour previously used. The need to have a regular reliable supplier of the paint was also a factor in the repaint.
As shown in the photo the fuel tank is Florite KG3, the toolbox and lower cabin back are Wattyl Semi-gloss OD, and the door and spare tyre carrier frame is Croda flat OD. As can be seen, even the difference between SG and flat of the same Australian Army spec colour is noticeable.

So if my KG3 appears too green, brown, light, dark etc that is fine. I know it is closer to the original WW2 colour (thanks to Gina) than the current Australian Army colour it had been painted so I am happy with it and to use the model making expression. "if the colour looks right, it is right"

Cheers,

[Mike K]

After many expensive stuff ups with paint retailers, I decided to do my own tinting . It's a cheaper option in the long run because there is no time limit on your own time. The paint retailers are paying a employee to mix your colour and they just want to get it out the door and get the money off you. If it turns out wrong, tough luck.

For green , start with a yellow base , I buy damaged cans for 1/2 price and you go from there. Takes some experimenting but my theory is : during the war they didn't want complicated tints and mixes, they kept it simple because large orders were from the Govt. , with may thousands of gallons being manufactured. There must have been cases of poor quality paint being supplied to the vehicle manufacturers , its human nature, rip off the govt.

This is all a complicated subject and with so many army units scattered all over the country and world, its nigh on impossible to cover every possible scenario . In some cases I'm sure units purchased paint from a local hardware store .

[Mrs Vampire]

Hi Mike ... Do you have a bar code for that reference??

After looking at the files concerning three tone I am not convinced a;; of these orders were actually instituted and I am not convinced a reference to KG3 prior to the final decision to adopt it was in fact KG3 and not KGj ...I am not convinced all of the correspondents were familiar with the correct names as written in the standard.

That said Feb 1942 is right in the transition zone from the prewar to the standard colour plates. I put the system into four distinct phases.
1 prewar until the declaration of war in Europe august 1939.
2 from declaration of E war to pearl harbour
3 Pearl Harbor to December 1943
4 from December 1943 until the adoption of DBD24
The second period seems to have had DBG 24 on the way out ..some KG3 and some Portland/Light Stone for ME The introduction of disruptive and the colour plates was in contemplation as early as late 1941ish based on the Nobel's system of colours used by the British and I imagine units were still putting out orders for 1941 schemes into the early parts of 1942 as they were later putting out orders for 1943 schemes in 1944 .
I am still not settled on this but it seems it had taken some months to catch up with the latest orders and for the supply chain to find them

As for the paint being substandard I strongly disagree , There was some from Victoria that failed and had to be reapplied however all others were Alkyd paint made to a stringent specification. That some is still extant on vehicles all be it weathered speaks to its longevity and sturdiness, Photographs from the time do not show flaking patchy or noticeably faded paint.

Flo rite can mix any of the standard colours to a highly precise shade,However if mixing your own suits then well done .

[Mrs Vampire]

I am familiar with Laurie's article and I mean no offence when I say it is anecdotal.
It is not sufficiently documented to say it is more than recollection .

Mike I am equally certain they did not purchase paint locally... there is an absolute lack of evidence to support the contention and an ocean of evidence that the Army supply chain worked