Info needed: correct colours for WWII Aust vehicles

[Mike K]

I believe some of the refugee vehicles arrived here still finished in the earlier two green disruptive British scheme .

I have one original Morris CS8 GS body side, the two greens are there to be seen , faded of course. The darker green was originally very dark , this was hand painted over the khaki 3 . The PU I have here has the two greens as well , under the desert yellow, which is under the cheap grey Lanes Motors applied in 1945. The old chap up at Whittlesea told me: Lanes Motors slapped a cheap coat of grey paint over the military paint before they sold the vehicles.

BTW the Ambulance in the Wangaratta film is a very odd strange green, the canvas and uniforms appear to be a reasonable colour . This to me indicates the dyes in the film stock appear to be in OK ?

This is a drawing I did years ago, an attempt at re-creating what I found on the Morris body. I should not have indicated G3 for the darker colour .edit: it should be G4 . The two Humbers on the punt, maybe they are the two greens ?

[Tony Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Mike Kelly

I believe some of the refugee vehicles arrived here still finished in the earlier two green disruptive British scheme....The darker green was originally very dark, this was hand painted over the khaki 3....The two Humbers on the punt, maybe they are the two greens ?

Good point Mike, I hadn't considered that possibility. I presume this refugee Bedford is the two green scheme...? They're quite close in tone, very little disruptive effect. Humber scheme looks to have more contrast, so my first thought was Dark Tarmac, but on reflection I suspect you're right. It's quite dark overall, more like the Bedford than the ambo seen below. However I don't know enough about British colours and chronology to be confident. It takes a practised eye to distinguish camo schemes in B&W photos, and I lack familiarity with British schemes.

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009341 1941-08. MALAYA CROSSING A MALAYAN RIVER. AUSTRALIAN ARMY TRANSPORT. (NEGATIVE BY M. NIC.JPG

P03429.001 Malaya 1941 Chevrolet 30 cwt Indian Army Pattern Ambulance donated by Rawleighs L.JPG

[Richard Farrant]

Hi Tony
I always understood that the Bedford QLB LAA tractors as in your post were actually sent to Australia and not refugees. From what I remember they were assembled at the GM plant at Fishermans Bend. It is highly likely they left the Vauxhall factory in Luton in the same colour as all other Bedfords coming of the line, ie same as the then current army paint regulations in UK.
Regards Richard

[Tony Wheeler]

Hi Richard,

I’m afraid my use of the word “refugee” was an assumption on my part, I really don’t know much about these Bedford tractors, just using this one as an example of paint colour. Thanks very much for the info, which makes perfect sense now that I think about it.

Photos are indeed taken at Fishermans Bend, they appear in a promotional album produced by GMH in 1942.

Cheers, Tony

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Bedford QL Bofors tractor Lae NG.jpg

[Lang]

Tony

I bought 2 Bedford QLB tractors from the old steam driven sawmill at Leyburn about 20 years ago. One was complete with the basic artillery body , the other was cab chassis. Never got around to doing anything with them and Ken Smith in Dalby got them.

The owner said he bought them very early "or maybe while the war was on" as he had priority as a timber producer.

The reason they were in such good condition, unlike most sawmill vehicles, was his opinion they were not anywhere near as good as the Blitz for tough work. As a result they were just reserves for his dozen or so CMP's. I got the impression they just occasionally used the winches for rolling logs in the yard.

Lang

[Tony Wheeler]

Lang, this one appeared on ebay last month, $400 in Lightning Ridge. Last time I looked it had one bid, maybe Ken...?

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[Mike K]

I was trolling through the AWM archives online , and I came across some shipping manifests . The documents named the ships and the equipment supplied from the UK, and the ports and dates. Stuff like M20 M/cycles were shipped here and the Matilda II tanks and more. These examples , I believe, were not refugee cargo.

Years ago Tim Vibert ran a wanted to buy advert in the 'Weekly Times' (rural newspaper ) , he was looking for QL Bedfords the ad included a picture of a QL Bedford. I recall Tim had purchased a QLB , this 'find' was reported in W&T magazine.

[Tony Wheeler]

Getting back to paint colours, these Bedfords received at Fishermans Bend in '42 would have been repainted KG3 with Light Earth disruptive, as seen on Chev CMP vehicles pictured at GMH Pagewood NSW in '42. However this scheme was effectively obsolete by late '42, being found too light for SWPA, and lacking sufficient contrast for effective disruption, which at the time was believed essential for concealment.

Preferred scheme by late '42 was Dark Green with Light Grey disruptive, but instructions were that vehicles already camouflaged were not to be repainted, unless moving into operational areas.

Which of these two schemes are we seeing in these pics? The one in the parade looks quite pale and not much contrast. My guess would be still in factory KG3 / Light Earth.

The other one is demobbed about to be civilianized. Very high contrast, with much darker dark tone, even in bright sunlight. Has to be Dark Green / Light Grey. Notice how the light tone / dark tone pattern has been reversed during repaint. I wonder if this was intentional, so the ARN on the doors would be visible. If so they’ve defeated the purpose somewhat by stencilling it higher on the doors!

When you start looking for Dark Green / Light Grey scheme you’ll discover it everywhere from late ’42 onwards. It’s time we recognized this scheme and start using it on restos. Until then we’re failing to do justice to Australian military history in the field of camouflage.

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Bedford QL Bofors tractor. source Cam Finlay FB Dec 2016.jpg

Bedford QL version. ARN 62144 after demob but before civilianization. per Keith Webb FB Dec 201.jpg

Bedford QL version. ARN 62144 after civilianization. per Keith Webb FB Dec 2016.jpg

015823 1943-09-25. NEW GUINEA. ADVANCE ON LAE. A NUMBER 6 ARTILLERY TRACTOR TOWING A 40 MM BOFO.JPG