Research regarding Cookers, Portable, No. 2

[Colin Alford]

The third piece of evidence that I noticed was the 20th image of original Ram interior photos on this page: http://www.ramtank.ca/ram_interiors.htm* (this image is also in the Ram II Operator's Manual but it is very dark and very small)

Again there is only the pot and strap visible and I thought that maybe the reason why the stowage diagram didn't illustrate the (British) cooker was because there wasn't one available for the artist to draw.* I still did not think that there might be a Canadian cooker.

The kijiji ad was the final piece of the puzzle that caused me to start believing that Canada must have had it's own design of cooker:* (images attached)

I then re-visited all of the previous images and realized that while I thought I was thought seeing a British pot, (Pots cooking, with lid) there is the obvious (once it is pointed out) difference in height.* I also started to think that the reason I could not see a stove in the stowage diagram or stowage picture was that it was actually stowed inside of the pot.

[Colin Alford]

I had a couple of discussions at the fall OMVA meeting about this topic and it was suggested that maybe all that this proved was that a special stove was issued with the Ram Tanks.* This prompted further investigation.

Jordan Baker identified the Model number as a Coleman 500 Speed Master and provided me with these links:

https://classiccampstoves.com/thread...man-500.19419/

http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...&postcount=107


In the above image of B-squadron XII Manitoba Dragoons, 3 of the tall Canadian pots can be seen in the image and one of the Coleman 500 stoves (with bright plated tank) can be seen in the foreground.

Once the model was known,* google searches revealed a number of other Canadian war-time produced examples.* Some still associated with the original pot set.

http://www.colemancollectorsforum.co...ctures-8382572


http://www.colemancollectorsforum.co...estion-8328895


This link provides a good general article on Coleman 500 production with some details about the military models:

https://classiccampstoves.com/attach...ls-pdf.177113/


Another example is presented at this link:* Unfortunately the linked images are missing but the thumbnails are visible in Google and are attached below. This example has a C-Broad Arrow stamped into the base. http://www.fotogenforum.se/fotogen/p...hp?f=21&t=1026

[Colin Alford]

The question still remained:* Was this actually a Canadian Cooker, Portable, No. 2 or did it have some different nomenclature?

I believe this document provides the best evidence that the Canadian Cooker, Portable, No. 2 was in fact a Coleman Model 500 Speed Master.

http://heritage.canadiana.ca/view/oo...88/372?r=0&s=1 (Complete document attached)

Unfortunately there is no indication of a date and the document's purpose is unknown other than it was obviously some sort of inventory.* When I first looked at it I believed I was looking at evidence that Canada had produced parts for the British stoves.* Upon further study I noticed that the parts for the No. 2 Cooker had part numbers within the description and many of those numbers started with 500.

I then found this document online on Coleman Canada's current website: http://s7d1.scene7.com/is/content/Co...EED_MASTER.pdf

Compare the part names and numbers between the war-time inventory and the Coleman parts list.

The military inventory also seems to indicate that the Canadian No. 3 cookers were also a Coleman product (possibly a model 412) as most of the repair parts listed start with the digits 412.

One more interesting point to note about the Coleman Manual is that it appears to have a Canadian Military Document number "10M-11-54" on the cover page.* If this is a Canadian Military number it would represent November 1954.

[Colin Alford]

Some other supporting documents:

Canada also used the Coleman Model 500 Speed Master as a Dental Stove.* Reports regarding the attempts to modify it to burn on leaded petrol can be found at C-5788 images 301-303, 305-11 and 314

http://heritage.canadiana.ca/view/oo...88/301?r=0&s=1


Evidence regarding material used for Canadian Pots:

11 February 1943- Issue Order 201427

"Cookers Portable No. 2- Pots Cooking with lids (Cast Aluminium)"

http://heritage.canadiana.ca/view/oo...4/4311?r=0&s=1 (attached below)

[Colin Alford]

Did Canada develop or use a stove that was compatible with leaded fuel?

It appears that the immediate Canadian Army Overseas response to the fuel change-over was to start using British produced stoves.* They did however continue to search for a Canadian solution:

Coleman (USA) produced new models for the military (leaded fuel) market including the Models 520 and 523 although I haven't found any evidence that these were produced in Canada.

User manuals for the 520 and 523 can be found at these links:
https://www.oldcolemanparts.com/reso...cans/520_1.htm
https://www.oldcolemanparts.com/reso...cans/523_1.htm


Canada trialed the "Cookers Portable No. 523 Coleman Vehicular Model" in the fall of 1943 as Army Technical Development Board Project Number DOS(GS)-1810.

A limited description can be found in the minutes of the Army Technical Development Board Meeting #6, 5 October 1943, Ottawa:

"This type of Cooker is not as satisfactory as British Cookers Portable Nos. 2 and 3 and has not been adopted."

http://heritage.canadiana.ca/view/oo...95/773?r=0&s=1

25 Apr 1944 - Canada still investigating possibility of using Canadian made stoves:

"With reference to proposed T.L.G. (Technical Liaison Group) visit to Canada.* Items concerning which the C.I.S Colonel Hidden and the D/C.I.S Lieut. Colonel Cothay request information are listed as follows -

A.****** Stoves - Various burners of the Cookers Portable No. 2 and No. 3 type that are produced and in use in Canada, particularly any types that may be adaptable for burning leaded petrol.* Col Cavey has had one Cooker Portable No. 2 Mk. III and one No. 3 Mk. III forwarded to N.D.H.Q. to compare with Canadian burners....." http://heritage.canadiana.ca/view/oo...6/3346?r=0&s=1

1945 - Canada ordered 400 Model 520s from the US which were apparently delivered before 30 Apr 45.

http://heritage.canadiana.ca/view/oo...6/4330?r=3&s=2

[Colin Alford]

What model of cooker is correct for my application?

I realize that the above information has the potential to seriously "heat up the market" for Canadian Coleman Model 500 Speed Master Stoves.* I offer the following thoughts to guide your efforts at obtaining an example.

If you concur with my suggestion that the correct identification of a Canadian Cookers, Portable, No. 2 is in fact the Coleman Model 500 and you own a vehicle that carried one or are involved in living history displays then you might be interested in obtaining an example.* I have not been following the market for long and I have no idea how frequently they appear for sale.

Depending on the time frame you are interested in portraying, the Canadian model may not be correct.* Their use overseas would have been severely curtailed in April 1943 because the burner design was incompatible with the supplied leaded petrol.* There is pictorial evidence of their use during training in England but it appears that they were replaced by British stoves prior to most of the major operations involving Canadians (Dieppe excepted - although I suspect that there was limited opportunity that day to cook lunch).

All of the pictorial evidence that I have been able to find regarding Canadian use of Cookers, Portable, No. 2 in Italy or North West Europe shows either Mark 1 or 2 British stoves and this makes sense because the Mark 1 could be modified, and the Mark 2 was specifically designed, to burn leaded petrol.

http://collectionscanada.gc.ca/pam_a...opy=a132806-v6


http://collectionscanada.gc.ca/pam_a...opy=a162681-v6

http://collectionscanada.gc.ca/pam_a...opy=a133978-v6

[Colin Alford]

The tray in the Mark 1* Universal Carrier.

There have been many discussions about dimensions, and the correct construction of this tray and some have expressed concern that their British Cookers do not fit properly.* In my experience your British Cooker should fit properly in the tray on your Mark 1* Universal Carrier.

Your tray should have the plywood piece (TL 13252 - Base Housing Stores)*in it*which effectively reduces the depth of the lip around the edge and allows the cooker to sit properly.* For both the Mark 1 and 2 Stoves the locator pins for the stand (legs) project above the edge of the tray's lip.

The tray certainly was designed for the Mark 1 Stove but the Mark 2 Stove does fit although it is somewhat*snug.