Research regarding Cookers, Portable, No. 2

[Colin Alford]

Did Canada develop or use a stove that was compatible with leaded fuel?

It appears that the immediate Canadian Army Overseas response to the fuel change-over was to start using British produced stoves.* They did however continue to search for a Canadian solution:

Coleman (USA) produced new models for the military (leaded fuel) market including the Models 520 and 523 although I haven't found any evidence that these were produced in Canada.

User manuals for the 520 and 523 can be found at these links:
https://www.oldcolemanparts.com/reso...cans/520_1.htm
https://www.oldcolemanparts.com/reso...cans/523_1.htm


Canada trialed the "Cookers Portable No. 523 Coleman Vehicular Model" in the fall of 1943 as Army Technical Development Board Project Number DOS(GS)-1810.

A limited description can be found in the minutes of the Army Technical Development Board Meeting #6, 5 October 1943, Ottawa:

"This type of Cooker is not as satisfactory as British Cookers Portable Nos. 2 and 3 and has not been adopted."

http://heritage.canadiana.ca/view/oo...95/773?r=0&s=1

25 Apr 1944 - Canada still investigating possibility of using Canadian made stoves:

"With reference to proposed T.L.G. (Technical Liaison Group) visit to Canada.* Items concerning which the C.I.S Colonel Hidden and the D/C.I.S Lieut. Colonel Cothay request information are listed as follows -

A.****** Stoves - Various burners of the Cookers Portable No. 2 and No. 3 type that are produced and in use in Canada, particularly any types that may be adaptable for burning leaded petrol.* Col Cavey has had one Cooker Portable No. 2 Mk. III and one No. 3 Mk. III forwarded to N.D.H.Q. to compare with Canadian burners....." http://heritage.canadiana.ca/view/oo...6/3346?r=0&s=1

1945 - Canada ordered 400 Model 520s from the US which were apparently delivered before 30 Apr 45.

http://heritage.canadiana.ca/view/oo...6/4330?r=3&s=2

[Colin Alford]

What model of cooker is correct for my application?

I realize that the above information has the potential to seriously "heat up the market" for Canadian Coleman Model 500 Speed Master Stoves.* I offer the following thoughts to guide your efforts at obtaining an example.

If you concur with my suggestion that the correct identification of a Canadian Cookers, Portable, No. 2 is in fact the Coleman Model 500 and you own a vehicle that carried one or are involved in living history displays then you might be interested in obtaining an example.* I have not been following the market for long and I have no idea how frequently they appear for sale.

Depending on the time frame you are interested in portraying, the Canadian model may not be correct.* Their use overseas would have been severely curtailed in April 1943 because the burner design was incompatible with the supplied leaded petrol.* There is pictorial evidence of their use during training in England but it appears that they were replaced by British stoves prior to most of the major operations involving Canadians (Dieppe excepted - although I suspect that there was limited opportunity that day to cook lunch).

All of the pictorial evidence that I have been able to find regarding Canadian use of Cookers, Portable, No. 2 in Italy or North West Europe shows either Mark 1 or 2 British stoves and this makes sense because the Mark 1 could be modified, and the Mark 2 was specifically designed, to burn leaded petrol.

http://collectionscanada.gc.ca/pam_a...opy=a132806-v6


http://collectionscanada.gc.ca/pam_a...opy=a162681-v6

http://collectionscanada.gc.ca/pam_a...opy=a133978-v6

[Colin Alford]

The tray in the Mark 1* Universal Carrier.

There have been many discussions about dimensions, and the correct construction of this tray and some have expressed concern that their British Cookers do not fit properly.* In my experience your British Cooker should fit properly in the tray on your Mark 1* Universal Carrier.

Your tray should have the plywood piece (TL 13252 - Base Housing Stores)*in it*which effectively reduces the depth of the lip around the edge and allows the cooker to sit properly.* For both the Mark 1 and 2 Stoves the locator pins for the stand (legs) project above the edge of the tray's lip.

The tray certainly was designed for the Mark 1 Stove but the Mark 2 Stove does fit although it is somewhat*snug.

[Colin Alford]

The tray in the Sexton

Your tray was very likely manufactured to house the Canadian Cookers, Portable, No. 2.* Montreal Locomotive Works likely had one on hand as they obviously used a Canadian model when they were designing the stowage in the Ram tanks.* Does this mean you need to find one of the Canadian models?* If you are looking to portray a vehicle that is stowed as originally intended at the factory then yes, but if you are looking to portray the stowage as used in operations then no.* The crews likely either had to stow the British cooker in a different location, modify the existing tray or make up some sort of adaptor. If it were my vehicle I would be tempted to make up an adaptor plate (potentially out of plywood with a metal lip) which sat into the recess of the existing tray then had a larger tray mounted on top to accommodate the dimensions of the British Cooker.* If the strap proves to be too short I would simply insert a normal utility (blanket) strap to increase the functional length.

Other Canadian manufactured armoured vehicles

Having had a look through various stowage diagrams I note that for the Lynx and Fox, the Cookers were stowed in bins that also housed other items.* I don't know if the bins had any dividers or brackets in them to specifically locate the Cooker or if the other items packed within the bins helped prevent movement.

The stowage diagram for the Otter does illustrate the Cooker and I think that we are seeing a drawing of the Canadian Cookers, Portable, No. 2 as there is no British style stove illustrated and the pot appears to be tall. (Otter images below)

The stowage diagram for the Windsor Carrier indicates the stove is stowed beside the pot thereby indicating use of the British Cooker.* This does make sense given the later date of design compared to other Canadian produced armoured vehicles.

[Colin Alford]

How to identify a military Coleman Model 500 Speed Master Stove

The detailed images available at the various Camp Stove Collector forums/sites give a good idea of the correct features for the Military Contract stoves.* The early stoves had nickel plated founts (fuel reservoir) and these are the type that are evident in the war time photos.* At least one example had a C-Broad Arrow stamped into the lower edge.* By 1942 the stoves were painted (Someone might be able to name the correct colour).* It appears that the wind shield is unique to the Canadian Military Stoves.* And certainly all of them will be made in Canada (not USA) and have appropriate wartime dates.* A detail which seems to support my whole theory is that none of the noted dates are after 1943 and this makes sense due to the fact that this style of burner was not compatible with leaded fuel.

[Colin Alford]

Post-war Canadian use of the Coleman Model 500

The hand-written note at the bottom of this document may be discussing the Coleman 500.* The most noteworthy part is that this 1949 note is the only document I have encountered that mentioned a "Cdn Cookers Portable No 2"

http://heritage.canadiana.ca/view/oo...2/5002?r=0&s=4

Here is my best attempt at deciphering the handwriting:

"Weight of US stove (5 lbs) is approximately the same as the Cdn Cookers Portable No 2.* Two of the latter items are reported to adequately heat a 5-man tent and prepare pack rations for 5 men, more-over they are being procured for present stockpiling.* Would therefore consider that we are interested in the US development should it prove to be an improvement over the Cdn. Cookers Port, No 2."* Dated 23 Mar 1949



If you are seriously interested in this topic, you may have come across reference to the Coleman 500 being referred to as a "Model C1B1" here is the basis for that information:

B-GG-302-002/FP-001 (formerly CFP 302(2), Part 1), Specific Operations, Volume 2, Arctic and Sub-Arctic Operations, Part 1, Basic Cold Weather Training. Dated 1974-03-15 (including Change 1 - 1982-08-04)

Paras 234-241 (pages 2-67 to 2-73) an image from this manual is attached.

This seems to indicate that these stoves were still in use into the 1980s. Does anyone remember them?

[Colin Alford]

A complete summary

As stated in the beginning, I certainly do not have all of the answers regarding Cookers, Portable No.2, but hopefully the information I have presented can prompt further discussion on this topic.

I recognize that there is some potential that my claims regarding the true identity and designation of the Canadian stoves could cause some controversy (and maybe I am wrong) and I welcome discussion or further evidence on the matter.

The research that I have conducted has been mainly based on files that I can access via the internet.* On the Library and Archives Canada site there are 2 more Canadian Military Headquarters - London files that are visible:

Petrol cookers.<http://collectionscanada.gc.ca/pam_archives/index.php?fuseaction=genitem.displayItem&rec_nbr=1 086764&lang=eng&rec_nbr_list=1086764,1086767,42870 42> 1943/01-1944/02. File.
RG24-C-2. Volume/box number: 12584. File number: 11/COOKERS PETROL/1.
Textual material. [Access: Open]. Government.
Finding aid number: 24-15

Petrol cookers.<http://collectionscanada.gc.ca/pam_archives/index.php?fuseaction=genitem.displayItem&rec_nbr=1 086767&lang=eng&rec_nbr_list=1086764,1086767,42870 42> 1945/02-1945/05. File.
RG24-C-2. Volume/box number: 12584. File number: 11/COOKERS PETROL/1/2.
Textual material. [Access: Open]. Government.
Finding aid number: 24-15

These 2 files likely contain additional information which could assist in further developing a complete picture of Canadian usage, unfortunately they are not currently available on-line.

[rob love]

Originally Posted by Colin Alford

This seems to indicate that these stoves were still in use into the 1980s. Does anyone remember them?

I never had cause to notice them before, but I'll be looking now, especially at my favorite military scrapyard, where the pots may no doubt lurk.

There is an old Cdn NSN for them, 7310-21-108-5755, which includes some Cdn army numbers for the model as well. They are now obsolete, although it's hard to say when. The last update was 2013 on the number. A lot of the numbers refer to the Army cadets, so they may have been using them later than the actual Cdn Forces.

I see they are readily available on ebay, although if one gets picky about the date and trying to find a C/l\ example, it could take a little longer.

[Tony Smith]

Originally Posted by Colin Alford

This seems to indicate that these stoves were still in use into the 1980s.

My reading of the above is that the above comments specifically relate to the Coleman 500 in CDN service, but you haven't mentioned the post-war service of the No2 mk2.

After looking on Ebay UK, I see a New Old Stock cooker in the bag with a manufacturing date of 1993 (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Army-stov...kAAOSw-uNaS9YW). When did they phase them out of service, or is the No2 Mk2 still in use?

If the stoves were modified originally to become the Mk2 due to the introduction of leaded fuel, were any subsequent modifications required to run them on modern unleaded fuel with it's additives of ethanol, toluene and benzene (and who know's what else?) I see the ebay version I've linked is now called a No2 Mk2 Modified. Do these stoves run OK on modern fuel?

(PS If the seller would post internationally, I would not have linked this item! )