VICKERS MK6B's resto

[Richard Farrant]

Colin,
The easiest solution is to find a sump and oil pump/pick up strainer from a 216 engine used in a normal 4x2 vehicle, I am sure this will then suit your requirements. It would be useful if someone can give you the depth of a normal sump, which I am sure will work well.

regards, Richard

[Lionelgee]

Hello Colin,

There is a specialist section within the Chevrolet "Stove Bolt" forum dedicated to The Engine Shop. They might be a good source to answer your question about changing the sump and oil pickup arrangements.

https://www.stovebolt.com/ubbthreads...gine-shop.html

There is currently 1,487 pages just for the Engine Shop so someone should know the information about the 216 engine that you need.

Kind regards
Lionel

[colin jones]

After looking at the comments it seemed a long process to find replacement parts which could take weeks and being the impatient person I am I thought it can't be that hard to change it, so I took off the spring wire and mesh guard and found the pick up tube was just hanging inside about 50mm. After checking the cross tube cover I decided to cut the shroud and the pipe which gave me the extra clearance I needed but only just. I took about 50mm off the sump and was able to graft it back on the same place.
I increased the depth of the front section which now gives me another 15-20%
more volume of oil. My sump plug is still in the same place which also lines up with the cover plate in the floor. So thank you for the suggestions. I should have not jumped the gun so quick

[colin jones]

Overall it took me about 5 hours but I'm happy with the outcome.

[colin jones]

I cleaned it all up and gave it a coat of high temp silicone based adhesive as a good insurance. I just need to give it 24 hrs to cure before painting.
Job done.

[David Herbert]

Colin,
The pick up assembly is purely a device designed to give the pump a pool of oil to draw from. The critical part of designing the intake to the pump is that there is oil there under all possible circumstances. In a tank this is more critical when the vehicle is going uphill as the engine will usually be at full throttle then whereas downhill it will usually be coasting so much less bearing load. Side slopes are a mid condition and flat usually easy to provide for. As I said before I think it is very important that you increase the oil capacity as much as is practical to prevent the oil overheating. It is not an option to use a car sump even if it was shallow enough to fit over the cross tube as you will boil the oil if you ever do any more than just potter about. Also loading onto a truck will let the pickup run dry as cars are not designed to be on that kind of slope. Remember that these tanks pitch badly both forwards and backwards in addition to the gradient.

Most relatively modern engines have the pipe from the pump going straight to the lowest point of the sump with a simple wire mesh strainer on the end and a tin shroud over that so that there only needs to be about 1/2" of oil to cover the intake. The CMP pickup is just a rather complicated version of that. Also modern oils have additives to reduce the foaming that wartime oils did not have. The CMP pickup would have been intended to try to separate air from the oil but that function is just not required any more.

You can have the pipe to the pump at any angle but the shorter it is the better. It is critical that it does not vibrate as it will vey quickly fall off ! It is also necessary that there is some sort of mesh to stop lose bits of rubbish being sucked in. Other than that it is just a matter of arranging things so that there is as much chance as possible of there being oil covering the end of the suction pipe. Sheet metal baffles that reduce the movement of the oil away from the pickup on slopes but still collect it from above can usually be designed and can be welded to the inside of the sump or fixed to the pickup as in what you have.

Not rocket science but just need some thought. Have fun !

David

PS: Colin posts much faster than me so I had not seen his solution when I wrote the above. I would put a horizontal baffle in the sump at the same hight as the new section and carrying on the line of the new section to almost the pickup. This would trap oil below it on uphill slopes but allow it to drain into the lower part of the sump on the flat. As it is you only have the capacity of the pickup assembly available when you are on an uphill slope and the oil has gone to the other end of the sump. The problem is that having reversed the engine the pickup is at the wrong end of the sump though I do agree that having the drain over the access hole in the floor is a good thing so the deep end of the sump needs to be where it is.

[colin jones]

Hi David, sorry I posted so quick but I didn't think I would have sorted my problem so soon. Just to confirm though, the sump is still in the exact same rotation and configuration. What I have done is shorten the depth of the deep end and increase the depth on the low end which gave me more volume of oil in total by probably a litre. I do have the original oil cooler to connect to as well. The pick up was shortened by about 50mm. This should have fixed the problem and I will find out today when I do another trial fit.
Thankyou everyone for your help.
Colin.

[colin jones]

I have made and fitted the two new engine mounts which are made on the same principal as the original. The drive train fits like a glove.

[David Dunlop]

Exciting times, Colin!

David

[colin jones]

Yes David, it's getting cccccloser.

[colin jones]

Having only one drive hub I am attempting to fabricate another. As far as I know, the missing one is on the Vickers at Duxford. Anyway! I cut some supports so it retains the flat surface while bending. I know I won't get the exact shape but somewhere acceptable. I drilled through all three sections to stop it from pulling in when under pressure.

[colin jones]

I am going to fabricate the bearing housings, weld and machine the excess off after completion. I need two more for the other tank but will wait until I decide what type of drive system will be suitable. after I weld in the boss, I will be able to lathe the outside perimeter down to size. The holes that are in the dish at the moment will be machined off and new holes put in the correct locations.

[colin jones]

Almost finished the drive hub. I just need to drill the perimeter holes, face off the plate edge and make the bearing spacer that fits in between the two bearings but I will wait until I get my new ones. I sure will be disappointed if this tank doesn't drive after all this work But I do have plenty of confidence she'll work.

[colin jones]

This part is the reduction hub off the drivers side and I need to make a complete one for the other side. The other part I just made was the outer hub which brings me to a question.??
I remember seeing on a thread some where here a T16 diff in pieces for refurbishment and I'm pretty sure I saw a similar set up. Am I right saying the T16 diff is the same. The chances of the gears being the same would be remote but has some one got any photos or info.

[colin jones]

This part is what holds the reduction gears and hub. It's probably the most intricate part to fabricate. I'm using what ever steel I have lying around the place and I don't mind welding pieces together.

[colin jones]

The design is quite complicated and I assume they had some voids to save on material and probably weight.

[colin jones]

I need to do the top section which I will have to allow a couple of days to machine, fit and re machine to get it all running true. My new lathe is a god sent as my old one never had the diameter that I need. Any way it's coming together nicely.

[Plushy]

Is there anything you cannot build Colin ?

Fantastic work as per usual . Once they are done are you going to keep both Vickers ?

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

Originally Posted by Plushy

Is there anything you cannot build Colin ?

Fantastic work as per usual . Once they are done are you going to keep both Vickers ?

...no, he's going to sell one of them to me...

My father-in-law once told me, with respect to restorations, that "there's nothing a man built that another man can't duplicate". I agreed to a point but thought there were in fact things that couldn't be replicated. Then I chanced upon this thread and Colin's work.

[colin jones]

Thankyou gentlemen for your kind words and James I can assure you, there is a lot I can't make. All you need is a good wife, good equipment, good workshop and in that order too
I will eventually sell one as I definitely don't need two, so keep your cheque book close by Bruce
I think I spent more time with set up than welding and machining but as it's a final drive, I want to make sure I get it right the first time
All the cutout/ recess parts would be for lubrication so I don't think I need to be quite so critical there but I will get in to that part with the die grinder tomorrow.

[colin jones]

Just a couple of photos of the engine in place. the mounts are bolted down and I left the slings in place as it will have to come out a couple of times before it's finished

[Plushy]

Well i got the Good wife and Workshop just need a bit more good equipment !

If you going to sell one i might have to get a bigger cheque book and join the que !

[David Dunlop]

She doesn’t appear to be leaning to the right with the engine in place, Colin. That’s a very good sign!

Be great fun to find video of either of them on the move somewhere and do a ‘Now’ video of the same tank.

David

[colin jones]

Hey David, it is actually leaning by about 10mm or so with the engine in so I guess the suspension is doing it's job.

The hub and sprocket mounts are done. I had to add a section to the original as the farmer had cut it down to accommodate the bren sprocket. I guess the Vickers one was different. Fortunately I have a supply of new sprockets and have made the mounts to suit.

[colin jones]

As I don't have a supply of heavy plate steel in the widths I need, you can see I have welded sections together to suit my purpose. I am happy that my joins are satisfactory.

[colin jones]

I am waiting for a costing for the supply of new gears and a few other intricate parts for the reduction hub . Once I get them I can finish off that part, fit them and then fit the tracks.

[colin jones]

I have copied and numbered the bearing cover as per the original with the exception of the date. That might confuse a few later when i'm worm fodder

[David Herbert]

Hi Colin,
Lovely job as usual !!

So are you using Vickers or Bren sprockets ? Different number of teeth or just slightly different mounting pattern ?

David

[colin jones]

Hi David and thankyou, I'm using bren sprockets as that is what was on it when I got it. I don't know exactly what the Vickers sprocket looks like or if it had the same amount of teeth or in fact if it was the same size as the bren. It must have been the same pitch and distance or the track would have been different. Anyway it has got the Australian sprockets now

[Dave lean]

Many thanks to Tim Bell (MLU)who has given me a quality lead on information regarding the elusive Vickers . 5 in MG details. With any luck we should be able to replicate the exterior features of this particular MG and in so doing keep the high level of authenticity that Colin is striving for.