1/35 scale Chevrolet C60L by Italeri

[Larry Hayward]

Well that title got all you model makers dreaming!

Sadly its not yet true - but come on everybody write to all the manufacturers and tell them :-

'WE ARE FED UP OF KITS OF ENDLESS VERSIONS OF GERMAN TANKS AND TRUCKS - AND WE DEMAND THAT YOU ISSUE A GOOD QUALITY INJECTION MOLDED CMP TRUCK in 1/35 SCALE !!!

Italeri have the skill and ability to produce good kits at affordable prices. Even if they made basic GS versions of the Chev / Ford CMP in 3 ton, 30 cwt and a new 15 cwt, just think of the versions you could build. I for one would probably clear the shelves of the lot at my local model store!

For anyone old enough to remember when Esci were around in the 1970's I remember seeing a new catologue of theirs which announced their forth coming release of a Dodge D-15! Yet the kit never appeared. I wonder why?

I can't be the only one wishing for a 3 Ton CMP that is not in resin? What do you think?

[Phil Waterman]

I made up a C60S from Peerless gun tractor as it came with the C15 cab parts as well just extended the chassie and rear drive shaft.

[Bill Murray]

Absolutely no promises but.....
I am fairly well connected through my Hobby business with Tamiya, Italeri and Trumpeter, a newcomer in plastic military models.

I do not know how to start a poll here but if anyone can help out in the sense of giving me a list, very, very short, of CMP and MCP vehicles that would be good modelling subjects I am certainly willing to give it a good try to start a dialogue with the manufacturers on potential new products.

And, please, no exotic variants. Just basic chassis.
Bill

[Bob Moseley (RIP)]

Hi All
Is this one any good. The seller seems to have a constant suppy of this model as he is always advertising.

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI....sPageName=WDVW

Bob

[Phil Waterman]

Never have seen this one before but take a look. Has anybody seen a source for these kits

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI....e=STRK:MEBI:IT

[Hanno Spoelstra]

see cgt model info for some kit info

[Bill Murray]

Not comprehensive at all, this is what is in my cellar at the moment.

Italeri/Italeri-Testors
Chev 15CWT
Katushya
Horch Kfz15
GMC 2.5 ton open cab
MB 3000 Lorry

Tamiya
FGT
LRDG Chev
LRDG Jeep

Peerless
FGT

Heller
GMC 2.5 ton open cab

If you wish to go the MCP route, the field is wide open in 1/24, 1/25 scales.

Monogram/Revell-Monogram/Revell
40 Ford Pickup and Convertible
37 Ford Tudor
39 Chev Coupe
41 Chev Pickup
39 Ford coupe (Might be AMT, it is current and I have none here)

AMT
40 Ford coupe, 2 door sedan, panel delivery
41 Ford Wagon
41 Plymouth coupe
37 Chev convertible
Ford Model A several variants
Ford Model T several variants
Ford 1932/33/34/36 several individual styles

There has been coming on the market as well a wide variety of die cast metal models in scales from 1/43 to 1/16 that could easily be converted to MCP variants. Some are incredibly cheap, some are pretty expensive. One of my favourites is a 1941 Plymouth pickup in 1/24 scale that I am going to convert into an Aussie Ute.

If I can help anyone to search out a specific vehicle, please drop me a line here or by PM or email and I will see if it is made.
Cheers
Bill

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Bill Murray
If I can help anyone to search out a specific vehicle, please drop me a line here or by PM or email and I will see if it is made.

1942 (or 1941) Ford truck in 1:35 scale? I'd fancy doing a FC60L.

H.

[Bill Murray]

Hanno:

In 1/35 scale, no, have never seen anything close.
However in 1/16 scale I have several die cast models of 1941 Ford trucks of the type you are seeking bodied as stake bed commercial trucks.
You then have two roads to take. You can keep it at that scale, which I intend to do and modify it as necessary, or you could make castings, as Cliff does, and reduce it and make resin castings to the proper scale.
Perhaps Cliff can chime in here as there are tons of pics on his Mr. Roo gallery on Armorama .com that show his mods to be able to build models of trucks that do not exist as commercially available kits.
Best I can do for the moment.
Bill

[Bill Murray]

Could not find a pic of the stake bed but here is the fire truck variant.
Bill

[Chris Wilcox]

Ciro models of the Czech Republic have recently released a 1/35th conversion kit of the F60L for the Tamiya Quad. The set contains the new cabin, complete bed and photoetched parts. It looks quite nice. I'm not sure of their availability though.

[Larry Hayward]

Bill,

If you have links to the kit manufacturers, then go for it and tell them they could really sell thousands of these kits. Please even if they issued a CMP with a Number 12 & 13 Cab on a variety of short, medium & 3 ton chassis lengths it would make such a change and we could mix & match the cabs & bodies.

If the kit companies issued a kit they could later re-release it in the following years with a new body etc, in the same way as the Opel Blitz has been modified over the years.

I'd also love to see Hanno's choice of an FC60L get released or a Dodge T110 as I fancy modelling such a truck when they were used during the Western Desert campaign. Which reminds me to mention tire patterns - bar tread & sand ones please!

Oh well we can only live in hope!

[Al Nickolson]

www.ciromodels.com/uvoden.htm

[DaveCox]

If you can get hold of enough of the old Peerless Max/ Airfix / Italeri CGT or C15 kits then theres no limit to what you can make with a bit of plastic card, glue, a straight edge and a scalpel -
Got twelve CMPs so far. I got the info for this model from members here on MLU.

[Larry Hayward]

Dave,

You are a much better modeller than me. I could never cut plastic sheet very accurately in 1/35, where details & errors really show! You need good plans as well.

In the early days when I used to buy Military Modelling Mags, it used to annoy me when they would have a feature a conversion of the Peerless CMP and then only show one side of the vehicle in plan form!

So for those of us who are just kit builders, we want a good CMP model in 1/35 scale!

[Bill Murray]

I was visited at the store by the National Marketing and Customer Relations Manager and the Executive Liason Officer from Japan of Tamiya Models.

After all of the normal nicities and store tour etc., we repaired to my office to talk about possible future product from Tamiya.

Given the chance, I pulled up this thread on my office PC, along with a number of other similar threads on other sites, and we had a nice long discussion about a 1/35 Scale Chev C60L and a few other variants.

Basically, it is a volume question as moulds for a plastic model run into the hundreds of thousands of dollars for high volume kit manufacture. We did also discuss the newer mould technology whereby it is a lot cheaper to do a mould that does not have to make 200,000 of something or whatever and could be made at a much lower cost. One problem with Tamiya is they do not use mainland China for their manufacturing so their labour costs are relatively high.

Anyway, both said if I could provide a very short list of what new products we would like in this area as well as a source for engineering drawings that they would do their very best to get it presented at the Tamiya Product Selection Group meetings.

We also broke open an FGT and a LRDG kit that I had in the store and determined they could possibly do a little "mould bashing" to reduce the total costs. Sort of use some of the FGT, some of the LRDG and then new moulds for the rest.

I would appreciate any input and for the modellers I know on here especially, get the word out to other sites without naming names at this point. I would also need to get some sourece for blueprints or engineering drawings or copies thereof. Cliff, I am thinking of you here and possibly David and Dave and some I know I have missed.
Bill

[Larry Hayward]

Great work Bill!

If Tamiya produce just one kit let's hope it's a CMP with an accurate No.12 cab and a 3 ton GS version with a commonly seen body. If this was the only offering then at least modellers would still have the Peerless / Italeri kit for the No. 13 Cab.

I appreciate Tamiya would want to use as much as they could from existing kits but some how the cab on the FGT never quite makes a proper No.12 cab on a GS kit conversion. Even the Ciro kit on this thread does not look quite right. Tamiya could use some bits for sure but I hope the new cab would be measured up from a preserved vehicle and some accurate plans you want to get.

A 'Western Desert' 3 ton GS CMP would go well with the other British vehicles they offer from time to time for the same period.

As for the LRDG vehicle - if it was given a new closed cab and a long chassis that really would be a bonus!

Keep up the good work!

[Bill Murray]

Well, Larry, I can only hope it comes to pass.

They mentioned that Tamiya prides themselves on their research efforts and quite often, maybe always, take measurements off of real vehicles/tanks/aircraft etc.
I have no idea what CMPs are available in Japan, but Oz is a relatively short flight away and there are kaboodles of probably every variant there.

One bright spot of the meeting was showing them this site and some others and I am forwarding to the US guy quite a number of Forum web site addresses that have large picture galleries of CMP as well as other soft skins. I also showed them Cliff's Mr. Roo gallery on the Armorama site and that blew them away.

Unfortunately, I will not really be able to meet with the rest of the modelling manufacturer "players" until July when HobbyTown USA hold their annual convention.

On the other hand, having now started this quest, let us all keep in touch regularly here and I should be able to present to the top three or four manufacturers some sort of semi-professional looking booklet outlining our wishes and including photos/drawings etc. At least I can try.
Cheers
Bill

[DaveCox]

Bill,

If you really think they'll listen this time then I'd favour and cab style with the most common wheelbase (Ithink it was 134") with only a small amount of work that would give us C30/F30 and C60/F60 units.

If they want any other suggestions this topic comes up regularly on Armorama. You've seen Roo's gallery, there are a few CMPs in mine as well!

How about a Comet tank or modify their existing Cromwell moulds to make a Challenger/Avenger?

[Bill Murray]

Evening Dave:

Dave, I would really like to see this through to see if a group or groups of enthusiasts can really influence a plastic model maker.

In that sense, my strategy parallels yours and it is here that I need your help and the help of others. I am a long ago modeller, now a model retailer amongst other things I sell. As an individual "brick and mortar" retailer, I would put my volume up against up any other "brick and mortar" store. However, I do not do mail order nor internet sales so my volume is based on my local market. However....my store is also probably the largest in terms of size in the US and that draws a lot of factory types who want to see what a 30,000 sq ft hobby retail store looks like.

I would like to leverage that advantage and, again, do a proper job of it.

So, to return to the strategy, I agree that we collectively have to come up with a suggestion for a chassis and cab that can be, with the obvious make differences, a basis for a wide range of Chev and Ford trucks. Tamiya have the engines and other parts of the drive train for both already. More and more mass market kits are coming out with alternative wheel sizes so that should not be a problem although there is still the "aftermarket" for those items. Tamiya, amongst others, is also starting to market accessory sets that can be used to differentiate basic models to create other variants.

This much I do know, For perhaps 5 years, I lobbied with the die cast and plastic manufacturers to introduce what we call "tuners", the modified lower line Japanese coupes and sedans that are all the rage now, as opposed to continue to produce old "muscle car" models that the younger crowd has no interest in today.

More than one marketing or product manager from these firms has told me that my name popped up in their market research and although I am certain I had little or no influence on their decision to enter this market segment it doesn't hurt that they know who I am.

The slight tactical advantage I may have is that I am a retailer, not a modeller albeit a retailer with a deep knowledge of the hobbyist side of modelling. And...I run a very large, high volume hobby store as a business, not a hobby and most of the manufacturers know that. I have no vested interest in getting my "favorite" model put into production. I just want to sell more models, same as they do.

Let's keep it going and see where it leads.
Cheers
Bill

[Jon Skagfeld]

Originally posted by DaveCox
If you can get hold of enough of the old Peerless Max/ Airfix / Italeri CGT or C15 kits then theres no limit to what you can make with a bit of plastic card, glue, a straight edge and a scalpel -
Got twelve CMPs so far. I got the info for this model from members here on MLU.

I've got two of the Italeri kits No 233, 15 cwt.

The box art looks to be somewhat lacking in authenticity. Can any-one confirm or deny these observations...?:

1. Vehicle is early production (square hatch) but has late production hubs.

2. Formation and Unit signs are reversed (unless that was the Australian method).

3. Bridge Class sign is mis-placed.

4. Is the additional Unit sign and PASS sign on the right bumper relevant?

5. Door census number quotes a Canadian CZ, for an Australian depicted vehicle, and the census number is one digit short.

Not meaning to be picky...just trying to flesh out my CMP knowledge.

[Bill Murray]

Good Morning Jon:

Excellent obsevations!!!

I see this from time to time on more modelling oriented forums, critiquing of the box art.

Many years ago, I was quite friendly with a fellow by the name of Yasuo Ohtsuka who did a lot of box art for Tamiya vehicles in the seventies and eighties. He explained to me that there was a constant fight between the technical folks who did the research and the molds, decals etc. and the sales/marketing folks who had to flog the models.

Much of the painstaking research of the former was often undone by the latter who wanted box art to "pop" or look much more dramatic than a rendering of a very ordinary looking truck or tank.
And, of course, looking at all the pics we post, most were very ordinary looking.

Yasuo maintained that Tamiya were for the most part insulated from this because Mr. Tamiya himself was such a purist. I suspect that this was pretty much true at least for Yasuo's art.
He was very critical of a lot of the other manufacturers's box art by the way.

He also said that errors did occur both in the box art and the actual models from time to time if they had to rely on using "restored" examples for their research. As we all are aware, and point out at every opportunity it seems, not all restorations are 100% authentic for a variety of reasons.

I am not an expert on a lot of the details of CMPs, so cannot say whether your observations are correct, I suspect probably so, but I can also mention that Yasuo mentioned Italeri specifically as a company that took a great deal of artistic license with their box art.
Hope that helps.
Bill

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Larry Hayward
I'd also love to see Hanno's choice of an FC60L get released

At least a 1:72 scale model is available of the 1942 Ford 2G8T "Truck, 1½ Ton, 4x2, Cargo Body and Closed Cab".
That's a start....


Source: http://pstmodel.com/

[DaveCox]

That's this one Hanno, as a kit it has both fit and (I'm told) accuarcy problems, but doesn't look too bad with a bit of work here & there!

A whole bunch of new softskin kits would be the answer to a heck of a lot of prayers, but all we get is another panzer grey tin-can every couple of weeks!

[Larry Hayward]

Hanno,

That truck looks really neat. I fancy getting one from Hannants (Model Shop) in the UK.

What a shame they did not do the kit in 1/35. Which makes me think - does it cost much less to design a mould for a 1/72 kit as it does for 1/35 or does it cost about the same? OK the amount of plastic used is greater but with some really detailed kits in 1/72 scale you wonder. And haven't some manufacturers scaled up or down kits that they knew would be a success in a new scale?

Let's hope Bill Murray has some good news for us from a manufacturer willing to take the CMP in 1/35 - without us paying over the odds for the kit when & if we get it. That why I like Italeri - they don't cost the earth.

The quest goes on.

[Garry Shipton (RIP)]

Not arms length away from me,I just had a thought,so I reached under my model unfinished shelf & dug out my yet to be built Italeri Willys Jeep kit,turned the box over et voila,at the bottom is the following:

Made in Italy by Italeri SPA-Via Pradazzo 6/B-Calderara Di Reno(BO) Italy-www.italeri.it

Maybe if everyone gets on their site & requests softskin CMP's.It might get their attention if 700 MLU'ers get on ,they'll see $$$$ in their eyes ,we can start a revolution.
Remember ,as Arlo Guthrie sang,one person is a thougjt,two are a crowd,but three,three is a revolution.

[Jon Skagfeld]

Yeah, Garry, all we gotta do, ya see, is "Be sitting around playing with the pencils on the group W bench..." When it comes around again...I mean, here it comes... Apologies to Arlo and Alice...and Officer Obie.


Flashbacks?

[Larry Hayward]

Garry,

I have just taken your advice!

Via - www.italeri.it - there is the facility to leave Italeri a message which I did, and I also left a link to this thread.

Only another 699 emails to go!

[Garry Shipton (RIP)]

Only 698 to go!!Do I perceive a 697 out there??

[Larry Hayward]

Recently I had a quick look at a French language Small Scale Military Magazine (I can't remember the name of it) which dealt with 1/76 and 1/72 scale kits.

In one issue I saw a diorama feature which showed a 1/72 scale kit of a Chev C60L 3 ton truck, fitted with a Flak 38 in the back. The article said the CMP kit was produced by Alby but I have not been able to locate the manufacturer. I assume it was injection moulded. Any clues