Pale blue tactical markings for armoured car regiments?

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

Originally Posted by Rob McCue

While restoring the SAR Halftrack we had the same confusion, Orders staes markings were to be in white , but the photographic evidence did not support white.

I found the attached in the Regimental War diary, stating all markings were to be reduced in size, "painted white and covered in green."

I assume an overwash of green to dull the white numbers/symbols, and thats why they do not appear as white in the photos.

In that cryptic military language, the meaning of 'covered in green' can only be guessed at. You're probably right and photos tend to agree, but I wish they had used unambiguous language. My understanding of the 4th Armoured Division is that they drove ashore in France decked out 'by the book' and had a hard and fast learning curve to ditch all that.

[Jordan Baker]

I found these last night while searching the archives. Its not so much to do with the pale blue or green washed white. However I believe it covers off the tactical markings for 12th Manitoba Dragoons.

[Jordan Baker]

and the rest of them

[Jack Geratic]

Jordan, nice find on the vehicle allocation for the Canadian Armoured Car Regiment. What type of vehicle is HUP? It's the 2nd last one listed in their legend symbols.

regards,
Jack

[Mike Cecil]

Heavy Utility Personnel.

An 8cwt Chev CMP C8A

Mike

[Jack Geratic]

Originally Posted by Mike Cecil

Heavy Utility Personnel.

An 8cwt Chev CMP C8A

Mike

Thanks!

[Jack Geratic]

About the HUP and off white markings, could the poster be referring specifically to the AC4 on the front bumper? This might be the tactical marking for special role vehicle. As described at CanadianSoldiers, they were black with yellow writing:

'The signs were to measure 8 by 6 inches, be painted in black with a 5/8 inch yellow border, and have yellow characters measuring 3-1/2 inches by 2-1/2 inches.'

regards,
Jack

[marco]

Here is a HUP from the RCCS troop attached to the XII Manitoba Dragoons.
It is marked "AC4", meaning "IM Shop" according to the list.
The color of the marking here isn't white also.
I do not know what "IM" means. Anyone?
Photo made at the railway station in Leeuwarden in May or June 1945.

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

Originally Posted by marco

Here is a HUP from the RCCS troop attached to the XII Manitoba Dragoons.
It is marked "AC4", meaning "IM Shop" according to the list.
The color of the marking here isn't white also.
I do not know what "IM" means. Anyone?
Photo made at the railway station in Leeuwarden in May or June 1945.

Marco, what makes you think the markings aren't white? I'd argue with the resolution of that photo they could well be. The CZ number on the door was applied before the vehicle was issued so the 'green over' paint would have to be painstakingly applied to the number, or else you may expect to see some discolouration around it if applied to dull them. I also wonder if any such dulling would apply to these behind the scenes trucks. The 'pale green', to have any effect, would have to be somewhere near the same darkness as the yellow on the bridge class and yet the star, CZ number and bumper ends are quite a bit lighter. Dirty, blurry white?

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

Originally Posted by marco

Here is a HUP from the RCCS troop attached to the XII Manitoba Dragoons.
It is marked "AC4", meaning "IM Shop" according to the list.
I do not know what "IM" means. Anyone?
.

It's nice to see the photograph match Jordan's archive material on tactical markings. The "AC4" is indeed a 'HUP', but it's hard to say what kind. It may be a wireless version or a screened in machinery van. Because of where it is in the list and looking at the other types shown I would say (and it's just a guess) 'Instrument, Machinery Shop' which would be a machinery van equipped to fix radio or line equipment. I would have said 'incoming message shop' but that's too slang and not the language I've ever heard before in the Signal Corps. Beside, there is a signals office vehicle for that.

Last word on the green over white. The SAR war diary talks about tanks, so it may not have been applied to soft skins. And the green, having thought about it more, may have been 'dry brushed' or lightly dabbed over the white to apply just a little dulling the same olive 'green' as the vehicle colour.

[Chris Suslowicz]

Originally Posted by Bruce Parker

It's nice to see the photograph match Jordan's archive material on tactical markings. The "AC4" is indeed a 'HUP', but it's hard to say what kind. It may be a wireless version or a screened in machinery van. Because of where it is in the list and looking at the other types shown I would say (and it's just a guess) 'Instrument, Machinery Shop' which would be a machinery van equipped to fix radio or line equipment.

I'd suggest "Instrument Mechanic", for the AC4 vehicle, as that was a WW2-era Signals trade (later renamed to Radio Mechanic and then to Electronics Technician). It may not have been just Signals, as there would be optical equipment (gunsights and similar things) to be maintained and repaired, but for a small unit it would most likely have been Signals, for Wireless and Telephone/Telegraph equipment maintenance.

Chris.