WS 19 in a Mk2 carrier

[RichardT10829]

Hi folks, does anyone have any info on what tray is used etc for the ws19 when fitted to a mk2 carrier ?

I know the seat folds down and some sort of bracket is fitted which hinges over from the track guard (that hinge is still in place on my carrier).

does it use the same sort of tray setup as the mk1 carriers ?

[Ron Pier]

I've fitted mine as in this picture. Therfore I think you need the No22 carrier with the PSU on top of the set. The No 21 has the PSU along side the set.

So far my set is just dummied in on a wooden board, so I need the carrier too. Ron

PS no idea why the pictures have come as links?

[RichardT10829]

Ron, I produce the rack that bolts to the track guard, I have a run of them on the go for people with Mk1* carriers, I wonder if they are also used in our Mk2’s though.

If they are, I will make an extra for myself

[Ron Pier]

The information I've seen points to the shorter instalation across the front of the carrier behind the bulkhead, in which case it would be a No22 carrier? Or did MK2's sometimes fit the longer instalation on the track guard?

I guess the No22 is the same as No21 but with the bit where the PSU sits, deleted? The PSU then sits on its side in two angle brackets and clamp down webbing.
Ron

[tankbarrell]

The common carriers for 19 set.

[RichardT10829]

Right, it’s the bracket this carrier sits on that I am querying, on the mk1* Carrier it bolts to the track guard then the water carrier sits on that.

If that makes any sense ?

[Ron Pier]

I've just checked, as so many projects since I fitted my wireless, I'd forgotten what I have.

I have a complete No22 carrier with the correct rubber feet, which are bolted to a 1/2" wooden board, which sits on the track guard and a wooden block on the hinged seat to bring it level.

I'd be interested to know what this board would have originaly been made of and how it was mounted. Ron

[Lynn Eades]

I'd be keen to know more about this. My Brit. AOP Mk IIIW has two lots of two holes just inside the hull side armour, that look like they would take the rubber mounts. I'd like to know more about how the other end of the No.22 base was fitted.

[Michael R.]

Originally Posted by Ron Pier

The information I've seen points to the shorter instalation across the front of the carrier behind the bulkhead, in which case it would be a No22 carrier? Or did MK2's sometimes fit the longer instalation on the track guard?

I guess the No22 is the same as No21 but with the bit where the PSU sits, deleted? The PSU then sits on its side in two angle brackets and clamp down webbing.
Ron

The C31UCW No.2 MK-II*, Canadian Ford welded hull MK-III, and assorted Marks of the two Windsor carrier models share examples of the Ford Canada factory development for installation of Wireless No. 19 Sets, chore horse, and portable (wireless) battery box stowage.

IIRC Doug Lavoie has a set of the mounting brackets?

Note: the last two images are Windsor carrier. You can identify that from a number of visual observations, the most noticeable being the channels running along the interior of the right hand upper protection plate. Compare that with the break-out bag stowage strap of the C31UCW No.2 Mark II*.

[Ron Pier]

Those are nice helpfull pictures Ross. The first picture (like mine. No22 carrier) Just has a simple flat plate at each end which I assume are bolted down somehow.

Interestingly, two of the pictures show the junction box that Kevin has.....Maybe I should get one? Ron

[RichardT10829]

I wondered about that box Ron, scratching my head as to its use ?


The pictures have answered my query perfectly Michael, the 21 / 22 carrier bolts straight to the track guard and seat base, unlike the mk1* which has additional bracketry

All interesting stuff, I am looking forward to having a fully working period intercom in my current carrier....I have no doubt the sound quality wil be terrible though

[tankbarrell]

The 19 set intercom is fairly good but you have to keep the mic rubber piece touching your mouth and speak clearly!

[Ron Pier]

Originally Posted by RichardT10829

I wondered about that box Ron, scratching my head as to its use ?

Richard, it simply connects the power supply leads to the two leads from the battery. Ron

[RichardT10829]

Ah, Rodger that.... I have a lead into the psi with bulldog type clips on the other end ��

[universalgrl]

The mount shown in pictures 3 and 4 is a WS-29 set mount as shown in "Installation Instructions Wireless Set No. 29 kits installation AFV Ns. 101,0102 and 104". Pictures on page 18,20,23, and 57 part number ZA/CAN 2384 Plates, adaptor, Carrier, No. C1. This plate was also used to carry the charging set. My scanner died so I can't post pics.

[ajmac]

Does anyone have any information regarding the fitment of either WS22 or WS19 in Loyd Carriers? All TT Loyd left the factory with an Ariel base mounting plate fitted at the front left of the upper hull and in 4.2" Mortar stowage diagrams a WS22 is mentioned as located in this same area of the vehicle. However discussions with other Loyd owners has suggested that this may just be a stowage location for the man pack rather than any form of semi permanent installation location. Thoughts?

[stephen crowhurst]

Dose anyone know what the bracket that the Variometer and Remote Control are attached to looks like, and measurements please.

Thanks Stephen

[Petr Brezina]

Hi it seems that installation of the WS19 in my carrier is on the list and I must say that Im bit confused. Its rather clear how to install set in Mk.I carrier but not perfectly sure how to do it in Mk.II or even in Mk.III.
I found pictures from Michael R. very helpful, they are so far the most clear ones. But of course, they are for Canadian made carriers which could means that there are differencies to the british ones.
Does anyone got AVS's Ns. 101,102,104 as Roberta mentioned, please? Propably they could shine some light on it?
My Carrier has in front and in the rear bars for "quick change" of the WS set and/or chorehorse unit.
Have no idea which carrier should be used on them. No.21, No.22, No.25 (modified?) or even some other?
Thanks for help

[Chris Suslowicz]

I hadn't seen this thread before!

Top left photo with the supply unit on top of the set and a different knob on the variometer is probably early prototyping work with a WS19 Mk.2.

Top right with the "bread bin" carrier may be a variant of the Sexton install that was being attempted on a universal carrier.

The last pair use a Mk.3 set on a variation (probably custom made) of the Carrier No.25. The power supply is _British_ (No.1 Mk.3) with (I think) modified keyhole slots in the top of the case for the retaining strap. It's got the mounting plates on the set carrier to mate with the table clamps (which have the bridge type shock absorbers) bolted to what I assume was the later WS19/WS29 table in the carrier. (That table is swappable with the one that has the Charging Set carrier fitted to it.) The table has a Batten 2-pt for power feed to the set, the 6-pt connector is on the front edge of the table, and the power cable to the batteries (6V 85AH) goes through the bulkhead into the front compartment and plugs into the batteries.

Top plate has a variometer on the left, with packing piece, bolted to the plate, then a No.10 aerial base (connected directly to the variometer), and finally a Control Unit No.2, connected to the set using the 'top' plug.

The rest of the connections:

The vehicle aerial base has a cable with a plug that fits the aerial socket on the No.10 base. The 12-pt harness cable and the 'B' set aerial cable pass through the trunking along the bulkhead (the 'B' set base is on the left of the vehicle, behind/on top of the bulkhead, and the harness cable goes into the front compartment for the Commander/Bren gunner's Control Unit No.1.

There's a custom made waterproof cover with zip front to protect the set - a lot better than the "drape a sheet over it" original installation.

The set is removable in one piece for use on the ground if necessary: unplug the 'B' set aerial, the drivers harness connector, and the power connector; release the table clamps, and the set can be pulled forward and lifted out. (If you're strong enough!) On the ground, use a new power cable, the spare pair of 85 Amp Hour batteries, and fit the whip (or a wire) aerial to the aerial base on the top plate. If you need the 'B' set, there's a clamp-on base and another aerial cable in the stowage.

That's my guess as to how they made it fit, anyway!

Best regards,
Chris.

[Petr Brezina]

Hi Chris, thanks for your points, very helpful as always. The pictures in the second row are from the Windsor Carrier, so for me (UC Mk.III) the first or second picture set-up should be correct I guess.
I like the "bread bin" layout but really not sure if it was generally adopted for the UC's or just experimental photo. Never seen it before. To have it in some official WS layout drawing would be great.

[Chris Suslowicz]

Hi Petr,

If Post #18 in this thread is your carrier, then it has the mounting hardware for a couple of tables, one to take the chorehorse carrier and the other with the table clamps for what is probably a variation of Carrier No.25.

How wide is the space where the mounting bars are fitted?

I've measured my Carrier No.25 and it is 25-inches (63 cm.) across.

I believe that with a suitable mounting board and table clamps, my set would be a "drop in" fit, complete with the standard waterproof cover, and that it is likely to be correct for the Mark III Universal Carrier (with WS19 Mark 3).

If that is the case I can work out the complete parts list for the carrier.

(I have been looking for photographs on the internet and am amazed at the number of Tamiya kits where people have stuck an 'A' set aerial into the 'B' set aerial base!)

Oh, and you will need three Aerial Base No.10 Mk.2 and one Aerial Base No.9 plus mounting No.1 for the carrier! (No.9 base behind the commander/gunner, one Base No.10 at front and rear, and the third one on the plate with variometer and Control Unit No.2.)

Best regards,
Chris.

[Petr Brezina]

Hi Chris, thanks a lot, space in my carrier is 64cm wide (wall to wall), 55cm between the "quick change" bars. So it seems that No.25 Carrier can tightly fit.
May I get some picture of No.25 carrier from the bellow, please? Would bars on No.25 fit on bars on UC floor (55cm between)?
Found on the net few pics of No.25, but not sure about exact dimensions. Also one carrier has interestingly bars cutted of (picture) - why?
I have already acquired some stuff, but still many parts missing.
Thanks for your help.

[Chris Suslowicz]

Originally Posted by Petr Brezina

Hi Chris, thanks a lot, space in my carrier is 64cm wide (wall to wall), 55cm between the "quick change" bars. So it seems that No.25 Carrier can tightly fit.

It should fit in that space - my measurement allowed a little extra width for protruding screw heads, etc., and I suspect the No.25 carrier was designed to fit in this space.

May I get some picture of No.25 carrier from the bellow, please?

Yes, but I will need to clear some space and get the setup moved to where I can photograph it. This may take a few days.

Would bars on No.25 fit on bars on UC floor (55cm between)?

No: the bars are meant to hold a wooden board with the standard radio table clamps, spaced for the Carrier No.25 - it's a lot narrower than the No.1 or No.3 (21 or 23) carriers. The board also holds a "Batten, Terminal, 2-pt" for the 12 volt power feed to the set. If you look at Photo No.1 you can see the hole in the bulkhead where the battery cable passes through into the front compartment. The bars on the carrier floor have a cone at the rear (which will engage with a hole in the edge of the board - probably metal edged for protection), and the hole at the front is probably tapped for a suitable screw or bolt to hold the board in place. See if it has a BSF thread?

Found on the net few pics of No.25, but not sure about exact dimensions. Also one carrier has interestingly bars cutted of (picture) - why?

Someone was an idiot (or a vandal), and cut the bars off, then drilled holes in the channel (probably to fit the post-WW2 "Barry" mounts) for a permanent installation somewhere.

I have already acquired some stuff, but still many parts missing.
Thanks for your help.

You're welcome.

I may set my WS19 up as though it is fitted in that carrier so you can see what it looks like (and if you think it is the correct setup for the vehicle).

Best regards,
Chris.

[Petr Brezina]

Thanks a lot Chris!

Originally Posted by Chris Suslowicz

The bars on the carrier floor have a cone at the rear (which will engage with a hole in the edge of the board - probably metal edged for protection), and the hole at the front is probably tapped for a suitable screw or bolt to hold the board in place. See if it has a BSF thread?

It seems that its just pin hole, no thread there Im affraid.
Never seen any picture or drawing of the counterpart, so hence my questions.
Kind Regards Petr

[Petr Brezina]

Just came across this interesting drawing in Chilwell which I overlooked before.
This support for wireless set is intended to be for AOP Mk.III but again something completely different
It has extra support (41) bolted to the engine rail (?) and some strange type of the carrier which I never seen before. There are obviously common rubber shock absorbers underneath but the shape of the carrier looks odd.
Confused again

[Chris Suslowicz]

Hi Petr,

I think that's a view of the support for the left hand mounting of the front wireless position.

If you take out the seat pan, then you only have the right-hand mounting bar for the radio/charging set table. There must be a corresponding left-hand mounting bar (with rear-facing cone at the front and bolt hole at the rear to match the one on the right hand side, and I think that drawing is a head-on view of the bracket that supports it.

The two mounting bars then support a tray (probably steel angle with holes at the rear to match up with the cones and plates to bolt to the holes at the front of the tray/well of the carrier) which will have either table mounts for the WS19 (and a terminal block for the 12V supply) or a frame and loops/clamps to retain the charging set. The trays will be identical in size so they can be swapped for WS19 at front/Charging Set at rear or the reverse.

I'll find a piece of plywood or chipboard and see if I can make a mock-up of the tray and table clamps with the carrier and set (etc) on top so you can see what I think it should look like.

Chris.

[Petr Brezina]

Hi Chris,
yes thats correct, AOP doesnt have folding seats so this supporting bracket is a must here. On UC wireless set carrier is supposed to lay on the lowered folding seat.
What surprised me is that mounting bar on the drawing is definitely not the same as on my carrier and also shape of the WS carrier looks odd. I would say its not No.21/22/23/25 - any of these. Perhaps again something special? What do you think?

[Chris Suslowicz]

Originally Posted by Petr Brezina

Hi Chris,
yes thats correct, AOP doesnt have folding seats so this supporting bracket is a must here. On UC wireless set carrier is supposed to lay on the lowered folding seat.
What surprised me is that mounting bar on the drawing is definitely not the same as on my carrier and also shape of the WS carrier looks odd. I would say its not No.21/22/23/25 - any of these. Perhaps again something special? What do you think?

I think the drawing is only supposed to refer to the support bracket (the set carrier is a "this is a quick sketch of what goes on top but I don't have the details and you don't need them yet" - indicated by the broken ". _ . _ ." line used for that part of the drawing).

I suspect it's a permanently-fitted Carrier No.21 as the AOP Carrier is a single purpose vehicle and there's no reason to have the set removable for use as a ground station.

Best regards,
Chris. (Still not convinced about the single mounting bolt and "rest it on the seat pan" idea for your carrier. It seems a bit insecure to me - especially for cross-country use.)

[Petr Brezina]

Thanks Chris, thats very useful discussion.
You can be right about the sketch, true is that we still dont have any drawing with the carrier and WS mounted in the UC.
Regarding the folding seat - there is a welded plate coming from the engine cover which supports seat in down position, you can even bolt seat to it (mine is missing hole in it, but should be there - now I believe to know why is this that hole there for - no such hole on the gunners side). So I believe that it could be very rigid and sturdy support.
Im obviously missing something WS carrier is locked in on the outer edge of the seat.

[stephen crowhurst]

This is the way my rear seat is set up for the mounting of the radio. There is a Dzus fixing in the corner. Hope this helps.