Quebec Transport Ministry + MV owners

[Eric B]

I wonder if this is a plan to get all of the MV's off the road in time to commemorate the 50th anniversary of the October crises? October 2020.

Eric

[Patrick B]

It sounds like you guys are doing a great job at straightening this problem out. I still have no idea what to do about my problem. Ive been looking into the "Canadian human rights act" what do you guys think I should be doing?

Edit: I removed a screenshot of Part 1 section 5 because it was too large..

https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/.../fulltext.html

[maple_leaf_eh]

Originally Posted by Patrick B

It sounds like you guys are doing a great job at straightening this problem out. I still have no idea what to do about my problem. Ive been looking into the "Canadian human rights act" what do you guys think I should be doing?

Edit: I removed a screenshot of Part 1 section 5 because it was too large..

https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/.../fulltext.html

I wonder how the Canadian Human Rights Act enters this conversation. That section deals with discrimination or denial on a Charter protection. The sentence is the operative one, "on a prohibited ground of discrimination".

Driving is a privilege not a right, and within the broad bounds of provincial jurisdictions there will always be variation. But, the Charter does allow for universality and equality between provinces. That would mean driving could not be prohibited completely while allowed in another province, unless so severe as to incur the notwithstanding clause.

[Dave D.]

Originally Posted by Patrick B

It sounds like you guys are doing a great job at straightening this problem out. I still have no idea what to do about my problem. Ive been looking into the "Canadian human rights act" what do you guys think I should be doing?

Edit: I removed a screenshot of Part 1 section 5 because it was too large..

https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/.../fulltext.html

We might need to start a new thread for this...maybe?

Have you had conversations with other Ferret owners?

I'm sure we have at least two Ferrets right here in Edmonton and I'm real sure they're Cold War historical vehicles that drive on our roads, sometimes under MP escort.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GS2IGvFqFdw

Let's give birth to some new ideas and see what we come up with.
Tank gives birth is a good place to start.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCN80PsdMR0

Seriously, our actions or lack there of will dictate how gov/ insurance / law guides the future for collectors. Getting a pile of folks onboard to paddle seems to help. What haven't you done or who haven't you contacted yet? Who has been in your corner and who do we need to get this fixed?

Have you gone public? Stories on the 'human interest' side to gain more public support is the guide we've been given. If the story is 'good for the greater public' and you have public support, push-back will be massive.....almost critical.

It's only my opinion that rolling history, under the correct maintenance is a benefit for the greater public. Locking them in museums limits their public exposure therefore not locking them in museums has a great public value.
We should push for status quo and bust these 'restriction' facades before they become our structure.

Just thinking out loud so these are only questions that leaked out and meant to open dialogue. How can we all paddle the canoe in the same direction?

What happens if we haul Alberta registered Ferrets to Penticton for their annual car show?
Does the RCMP enforce this new restricted Ferret ruling?
Does this affect tourism?

Is there a previous legal precedent set in B.C.? Were Ferrets registered before and if so, what changed?

There is a legal directorate to protect history in Canada. Does it apply in this case and is it being used?

Your question about human rights is part of a broad band question. Are the actions they are taking legal? Maybe the RCMP or Provincial Police don't know about this ban and would have someone that would investigate it, get back to you with info.

The the next thing that comes to mind is damages. There is a cost/ value to everything you've done to this point including the time spent fighting this. Are they prepared to cover damages in a lawsuit?

Does the Legion know you have a Ferret that could visit the boys on Friday nights?

Sometimes just calling up the local car clubs to talk about your challenge is enough to things shifted the right direction. https://www.sva.bc.ca/

What have we missed?

Culture and Heritage, Finance, Defence, existing museums with rolling stock, sports teams that need a mascot, Universities that teach history, business@thecanadianpress.com ?

[Patrick B]

the reason i bring up the Canadian human rights laws is because i am being refused a service that is provided to other people here in BC. ICBC has been informed that there are other ferrets here in BC registered with vintage plates but they do not care to acknowledge it. To me that is discrimination.

Discriminatory Practices

Denial of good, service, facility or accommodation

5 It is a discriminatory practice in the provision of goods, services, facilities or accommodation customarily available to the general public

(a) to deny, or to deny access to, any such good, service, facility or accommodation to any individual, or

(b) to differentiate adversely in relation to any individual,

on a prohibited ground of discrimination.

1976-77, c. 33, s. 5

I have spoken with more than one owner here in BC that have ferrets registered with vintage plates. They dont understand why i am having so much trouble.
The SVA tried to help me but couldnt.
I have basically run out of ideas that do not involve lawyers.

[Patrick B]

Last year i joined Western Command Military Historical Society. I have spoken with the Canadian Military Education Centre, the Speciality Vehicle Association Of BC, previous ICBC employees in upper positions that have registered ferrets in the past have spoken with ICBC on my behave and nothing has come from any of it.

Perhaps I should start a new thread. Sorry about derailing the original thread.

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

The risk is they will go after the existing Ferret owners and refuse their registrations making you the bad guy.

Originally Posted by Patrick B

the reason i bring up the Canadian human rights laws is because i am being refused a service that is provided to other people here in BC. ICBC has been informed that there are other ferrets here in BC registered with vintage plates but they do not care to acknowledge it. To me that is discrimination.

Discriminatory Practices

Denial of good, service, facility or accommodation

5 It is a discriminatory practice in the provision of goods, services, facilities or accommodation customarily available to the general public

(a) to deny, or to deny access to, any such good, service, facility or accommodation to any individual, or

(b) to differentiate adversely in relation to any individual,

on a prohibited ground of discrimination.

1976-77, c. 33, s. 5

I have spoken with more than one owner here in BC that have ferrets registered with vintage plates. They dont understand why i am having so much trouble.
The SVA tried to help me but couldnt.
I have basically run out of ideas that do not involve lawyers.

[Patrick B]

Originally Posted by Bruce Parker

The risk is they will go after the existing Ferret owners and refuse their registrations making you the bad guy.

I think that is one reason why im having a hard time getting any support from the community.
Unfortunately if we dont stand together, it will be a simple divide and conquer.

I am here to confirm that i have been refused registration so other owners are aware of what ICBC and CVSE are doing. what do the people here think should be done about it?

[maple_leaf_eh]

Originally Posted by Patrick B

the reason i bring up the Canadian human rights laws is because i am being refused a service that is provided to other people here in BC. ICBC has been informed that there are other ferrets here in BC registered with vintage plates but they do not care to acknowledge it. To me that is discrimination.

Discriminatory Practices

Denial of good, service, facility or accommodation

5 It is a discriminatory practice in the provision of goods, services, facilities or accommodation customarily available to the general public

(a) to deny, or to deny access to, any such good, service, facility or accommodation to any individual, or

(b) to differentiate adversely in relation to any individual,

on a prohibited ground of discrimination.

1976-77, c. 33, s. 5

I have spoken with more than one owner here in BC that have ferrets registered with vintage plates. They dont understand why i am having so much trouble.
The SVA tried to help me but couldnt.
I have basically run out of ideas that do not involve lawyers.

Patrick, the clause you cite is the operative one for that body of legislation and its specific protections. Article 15 of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms deals with equality across the country, https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/csj-sj...eck/art15.html.

Jurisprudence noted by the Department of Justice's own page highlights one grounds as "Administrative action (e.g., the implementation of an otherwise non-discriminatory statute in a discriminatory way by government officials) (Little Sisters Book and Art Emporium v. Canada (Minister of Justice), [2000] 2 S.C.R. 1120)." This case dealt with a bookstore catering to gay and lesbian clients, and was charged under obscenity laws for selling printed materials. I think it was always in trouble with the Customs people who refused to allow importation of this material.

Despite my university level English, I was never clever enough to follow every part of the legal discussion in the website. But.... it would appear the the discrimination has to meet more than one test to be covered by this Section. We as vehicle owners are not in the same class of injury as citizens who may have suffered prolonged harsh treatment or discrimination on far worse grounds.

There is an equivalent Quebec charter. http://legisquebec.gouv.qc.ca/en/ShowDoc/cs/C-12 Part 1 Chapter 1 Paragraph 6. "Every person has a right to the peaceful enjoyment and free disposition of his property, except to the extent provided by law." The extent of the law put the permission to enjoy property into the hands of the government, and that is what they are doing regulating the issue or refusal to issue vehicle registrations. Being owners of one class of vehicle which has been singled out as something different might be a discriminatory practise.

Paragraph 12 continues, "12. No one may, through discrimination, refuse to make a juridical act concerning goods or services ordinarily offered to the public." The phrase ordinarily offered could likely be read as what was once done. As I read the rest of the Act and its articles, I did not see other language about property, but lots about legal and human rights.

[Patrick B]

Thanks for your insight Terry. I really dont know what to do. Im just grasping at straws as the saying goes.

[maple_leaf_eh]

Spend some time researching a human rights lawyer who might know more about "stuff" and regulatory law, than knowing about slighted citizens. Then breath deep and spend some money. You'll get an answer whether you're in the game or not.