Did Canadian army in ETO use 4x2 CMPs?

[jakob]

I have one f15 4x2 but no contract id number plates.

And i have a chev C15 4x2 with id plates with contract number starting with SM ????.
Matching number vehicle id plates engine and doar number still on.
Build on british contract number.

There are 2 more chev C15 4x2 on my yard without id plates and i have one in bits and peaces with out id plates as wel.

Do you have id plates with contract numbers?

[Hendrik van Oorspronk]

Ours also has a British contract number.

groet

Hendrik

[Dave Newcomb]

HI all; the British/ commonwealth units in Egypt had 4X2's of '39 and '40 mfg. Civilian cabs with wide tyres. These trucks are pictured in Ford Trucks publication of the Early V8 Ford Club. Newc

[Hendrik van Oorspronk]

I do agree that 4 x 2 were used but did the Canadian army use Cab 13 4x2 's ??

Groeten

Hendrik

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hendrik van Oorspronk

I do agree that 4 x 2 were used but did the Canadian army use Cab 13 4x2 's ??

That question is the very subject of this thread. We need to collect information from data plates, period photos and production orders to find the answer. I know one of the vehicles used to liberate my home town was a Cab 13 4x2 15-cwt truck. But that in itself is not enough proof. Let's keep searching!

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Alex van de Wetering

F15 in Alkmaar 1945. However...is it British or Canadian? The second picture of the Jeep and Fordson were taken on the same day and on the same location. Fordson and jeep are clearly marked Canadian.....so F15 as well???

Here's another picture of another F15, taken at Amsterdam, 8 May 1945, when Canadian units were entering the town to liberate it.



Location: Noorder Amstellaan (Churchill-laan); photo by Mr. Chris de Keijzer
Source: http://www.zuidelijkewandelweg.nl/ar...ding/index.htm

Photographic proof, not in abundance, but clearly Canadian units used 4x2 CMP trucks....

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

On p. 246 of Les Freaty's British Military Trucks of WW2 I found this interesting picture of a Ford CMP F15 4x2 truck fitted with a British-built cargo body.

My hypothesis is that these trucks were originally assembled as Truck, 15-cwt, 4x2, AA, Mk II, more often referred to as a 15-cwt Polsten AA truck (or similar).
When due to Allied air superiority this type of AA truck was not needed anymore, they were re-bodied with GS type bodies commonly found on British 15-cwt trucks.

In the background, here's another 15-cwt 4x2 truck with British GS body, picture was taken somewhere in Normandy on 13 August 1944.



© IWM (B 9093), source: https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/i...ject/205202473

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Here's another Ford F15 4x2 GS truck with British wooden GS body, pictured on the road from Wassenaar to The Hague on 8 May 1945.





Source: https://libertytour.nl/

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Another 4x2 CMP in Europe, via Keith Webb: "Spitfire pilots of 111 Sqn RAF in France, 1944 with a Ford 15CWT in the background."

[Keith Webb]

The RAF and RAAF squadrons in the Desert Air Force used F15s in some numbers.

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Another 4x2 CMP in Europe, via Keith Webb: "Spitfire pilots of 111 Sqn RAF in France, 1944 with a Ford 15CWT in the background."

Attachment 101729

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Keith Webb

The RAF and RAAF squadrons in the Desert Air Force used F15s in some numbers.

They sure did, but the challenge here is to find 4x2 CMPs in use in Europe during 1944/1945. That’s why I posted your photo here - thanks!

[Keith Webb]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

They sure did, but the challenge here is to find 4x2 CMPs in use in Europe during 1944/1945. That’s why I posted your photo here - thanks!

They also moved into Europe and took their vehicles with them.

Here's a 92 Squadron RAF Ford F15 in some difficulties in Sicily after being transported from Egypt.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Uh oh, did the distributor got wet?!? Now the fly-boys have to get their feet wet....

Originally Posted by Keith Webb

They also moved into Europe and took their vehicles with them.

Here's a 92 Squadron RAF Ford F15 in some difficulties in Sicily after being transported from Egypt.

[Alex van de Wetering]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Here's an F15 4x2 in Antwerp. Although it was captured on film by a Canadian unit, it could of course also be a British truck. At least this could help to get the discussion on this subject going. . .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Teb8KUb3UuE&t=323s

I was looking at the same footage yesterday. The white bar on top of the AoS indicates corps troops. "54" Transport company. Maybe British XXX Corps???

Alex

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Alex van de Wetering

I was looking at the same footage yesterday. The white bar on top of the AoS indicates corps troops. "54" Transport company. Maybe British XXX Corps???

It may well be!

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Here's a 4x2 15-cwt CMP in action in the province of Drenthe, the Netherlands.

According to the caption these are vehicles of the Belgian 5th SAS Regiment. In that case, the picture must have been taken during Operation Larkswood (read more here: https://www.saak.nl/battlefield%20to...herst%20en.htm).

The Belgian SAS were supporting 2nd Canadian Corps during that Operation. As far as I know the SAS did not have 15-cwt trucks, so possibly it belonged to a unit from 2nd Canadian Corps.



Caption: A motorized column of the Belgian SAS Para Regiment operating in the north of the Netherlands, equipped with Jeeps equipped with air target machine guns.
Place: Oosterhesselen, Drenthe, the Netherlands

Souce: https://nimh-beeldbank.defensie.nl/m...1-13966e870614

[David Dunlop]

That would make an interesting ‘Then and Now” photo set, Hanno, if the location could be traced.

There are probably not many roads in that area with a rail line crossing it at such a sharp angle, followed almost immediately by a spur line that seems to head off parallel to the road.

David

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

On p. 246 of Les Freaty's British Military Trucks of WW2 I found this interesting picture of a Ford CMP F15 4x2 truck fitted with a British-built cargo body.

My hypothesis is that these trucks were originally assembled as Truck, 15-cwt, 4x2, AA, Mk II, more often referred to as a 15-cwt Polsten AA truck (or similar).
When due to Allied air superiority this type of AA truck was not needed anymore, they were re-bodied with GS type bodies commonly found on British 15-cwt trucks.

Here’s a screenshot of one of these trucks. Odon Valley, Normandy, France, 21 June 1944.


Source: https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/i...ect/1060019591

DESCRIPTION
Object description
Traffic from formations deployed with 12th Corps in the Odon valley encounters difficult road conditions after the great storm of July 20th 1944.
Full description
Lorries, trucks, jeeps and motorcycle despatch riders belonging primarily to 43rd (Wessex) Division and 3rd Army Group Royal Artillery units are seen making their way along a badly- rutted road (outside the village of Marcelet) that has become a sea of liquid mud; among the numerous types of vehicle seen here are an Albion six-wheeled 3-ton lorry from an unspecified 43rd (Wessex) Division unit, two CMP 3-ton lorries from 504th and 505th Companies RASC respectively, two Dodge tipper lorries from a 2nd Army RASC unit, a Scammell heavy breakdown tractor ("Liberator") from 107th RAC's REME echelon, a CMP water truck from 179th Field Regiment RA, a Bedford MW truck from 13th Medium Regiment RA (which gets stuck in a pothole and has to be towed free), two Fordson WOT6 lorries (with 'A' squadron markings) carrying explosives for an unspecified 79th Armoured Division unit and a Humber heavy utility staff car.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Canadian troops on the Market Square, Middelburg, The Netherlands, 1945. Note the Terrapins, DUKW and CMP 4x2 truck.



Source: https://digitaal.dezb.nl/foto/c59ea5...0-cb43733749f8

[David Herbert]

Great photo Hanno.
I have never seen a photo of Terrapins in action and there are four in that picture !
Kevin Wheatcroft used to have one (no idea if he still has it) and that is the only one I have ever seen.

David

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Hello David,

Reportedly Terrapins were used extensively during the Battle for the Scheldt. While M29C Weasels proved to be worthless, the bigger amphibians like LVT, DUKW and Terrapin proved to be decisive for the operations.

Here's another picture taken in Middelburg during November 1944. You can find more here: https://digitaal.dezb.nl/beeldbank/s...field=terrapin

Not sure Mr. Wheatcroft still has the Terrapin, I read he is currently having ten(!) Sherman tanks restored. Hopefully he will (also) spend his resources on a really rare vehicles like the Terrapin ;-)

H.




Source: https://digitaal.dezb.nl/foto/0932ca...c-634b75bf90ec

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

On p. 246 of Les Freaty's British Military Trucks of WW2 I found this interesting picture of a Ford CMP F15 4x2 truck fitted with a British-built cargo body.

My hypothesis is that these trucks were originally assembled as Truck, 15-cwt, 4x2, AA, Mk II, more often referred to as a 15-cwt Polsten AA truck (or similar).
When due to Allied air superiority this type of AA truck was not needed anymore, they were re-bodied with GS type bodies commonly found on British 15-cwt trucks.

And here are a couple more, maybe even three.

Two Ford F15 4x2 trucks passing Sherman Crab flail tanks. Note they are fitted with wooden cargo bodies like on most British 15-cwt trucks. The third one may have had a wooden body too, as not much is left after it burned.



Source of screenshots: https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/i...ect/1060019710

Object description
While the rest of the 7th Armoured Division is placed in reserve, units serving with the 22nd Armoured Brigade join up with the 43rd (Wessex) Division on the southern slopes of Mont Pincon.
Full description
Two Canadian-pattern 15 cwt-trucks drive past a column of Sherman Crab flail tanks belonging to the Westminster Dragoons awaiting the call into action near Roucamps (?). The burnt-out remains of trucks, lorries and jeeps from the 1/5th Battalion Queen's Regiment which were destroyed by mines and shell-fire on August 5th 1944 litter the main road running through the village of Vallée de Hamars. Cromwell and Firefly tanks from the 5th Royal Inniskilling Dragoon Guards and a lone 5th Royal Horse Artillery OP Cromwell tank churn up the dusty road from Roucamps to Le Plessis-Grimoult, where they will join up with 43rd Division's 129th Brigade.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

On p. 246 of Les Freaty's British Military Trucks of WW2 I found this interesting picture of a Ford CMP F15 4x2 truck fitted with a British-built cargo body.

My hypothesis is that these trucks were originally assembled as Truck, 15-cwt, 4x2, AA, Mk II, more often referred to as a 15-cwt Polsten AA truck (or similar).
When due to Allied air superiority this type of AA truck was not needed anymore, they were re-bodied with GS type bodies commonly found on British 15-cwt trucks.

Alex spotted this C15 in a film clip recently. On 1 October 1944, shortly after Eindhoven was liberated, a volunteer of the Red Cross collects money.

Note the spare wheel: it sits low on a shelf, just like the F15s with British 15-cwt body as seen in this thread. This would be the first confirmed C15 with this body.

According to the Chilwell list Z5354431 was one of the following batch: "Z5353961-5354980 SM2689 Chevrolet truck 15cwt 4x2 G/S"



Source: http://in.beeldengeluid.nl/collectie...864/false/true

[Alex van de Wetering]

Just came across this 4x2. Picture taken in Haaren 1944 (Brabant, south part of the Netherlands)


Does that say "CZ" on the door?

source: https://www.bhic.nl

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Alex van de Wetering

Just came across this 4x2. Picture taken in Haaren 1944 (Brabant, south part of the Netherlands)

Does that say "CZ" on the door?

Great find again, Mr. eagle eye!

I'd say it does say CZ. Now, is it a Ford or Chevrolet?

[Alex van de Wetering]

Now, is it a Ford or Chevrolet?

Yes......most likely a Chevrolet or Ford

But seriously; very hard to tell.....mirror support or brush guard can't be seen.
The same picture turns up twice in the archive, but the other scan is even worse.

Alex

[Tony Smith]

Two things, the picture is blurred because it's going very fast.

And the front hubcap appears to be a small cap casting a long, thin shadow.

Both of these things would indicate Ford.

[Alex van de Wetering]

Both of these things would indicate Ford

Must be going backwards than....

Two more....First is probably British though (Dodges with British bodies). Picture taken in Eindhoven
source: http://www.eindhoven-in-beeld.nl/

And second.....two partial shots of a 4x2 in a Canadian camp in Rotterdam. Ford by the looks of it......and in Canadian service, even though we still haven't found the "smoking gun" of a 4x2 actually sporting Canadian registration!
source:https://stadsarchief.rotterdam.nl/

Alex

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Look at the right, an F15 4x2 in British service in Normandy.

Caption: "British Sherman Firefly on a road in France 27th July 1944"


Source: https://flic.kr/p/dJudE4

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

On p. 246 of Les Freaty's British Military Trucks of WW2 I found this interesting picture of a Ford CMP F15 4x2 truck fitted with a British-built cargo body.

My hypothesis is that these trucks were originally assembled as Truck, 15-cwt, 4x2, AA, Mk II, more often referred to as a 15-cwt Polsten AA truck (or similar).
When due to Allied air superiority this type of AA truck was not needed anymore, they were re-bodied with GS type bodies commonly found on British 15-cwt trucks.

And another CMP with British 15-cwt body. Its census number reads Z5346754.




Source: https://www.britishpathe.com/video/time-off-from-war

Title reads: "Time off from war".

Normandy, France.

ISSUE DATE:10/08/1944

Description:
Various shots of British soldiers (the Desert Rats) arriving at rest camp run by Second Army Corps. They alight from truck and are given cigarettes and letter cards. Various shots of the troops lining up for food, eating in mess tent and then washing out their mess tins.

We see the soldiers relaxing on few days leave. Various shots of some of the soldiers out horse riding on ponies captured from Germans. Some others go out on small dinghies and fishing boats loaned by local fishermen. Some of the men even catch a few fish.

Various shots of local French women doing the laundry for the troops. M/S of group of troops getting haircut from French hairdresser. M/S of soldier hands letter into the field censor who makes small alteration.

C/U of makeshift sign for "The Wheatsheaf". C/U of soldiers drinking beer from bottles. Various shots of an open-air stage, a couple of comics entertain some of the troops.

Various shots of soldiers getting back onto trucks to go back to the war. One soldier "Shorty" is late and has to run, his mates haul him up into the truck as it starts to drove away