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#1
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Hi Jacques,
The ARN may be above or below, ie along the top edge or the bottom edge of the panel, with the Unit Embarkation Sign bars of colour most likely below the USN. The bars may be either vertical or horizontal - most likely horizontal, with the top and bottom bars being the same colour representing the second last digit of the USN. Be interested to see what your mate turns up when he rubs the panel back. The book: hardly a best seller, so I doubt it would ever go to a reprint. With so few about, it's now a 'rare book'!! Best regards Mike |
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#2
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From my F15 Jacques, for your reference.
It appears to be done in free hand. Looks good in my opinion
__________________
Pax Vobiscum.......may you eat three meals a day & have regular bowel movements. |
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#3
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Hi Tony,
Thanks for posting that photo. It shows what Tony Smith said about sign writers doing the job of painting the numbers on the vehicles. Each has their individual style. The "5" on your cowl has a definite flourish, I think that is the word for it, on the top bar compared to the straight edge on ARN 53166. Different writers, different styles within the specs that Mike mentioned. And for Mike- I should have bought the book when it came out! Cheers,
__________________
F15-A 1942 Battery Staff Jacques Reed |
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#4
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Quote:
The abovementioned mate is me. It's been a while since we conversed, I trust you're well these days. Jacques mentioned this thread to me and I was interested to read your information concerning the 45988 marking, which previously had me puzzled, as I was unfamiliar with the USN marking system. Further rubbing back revealed the coloured bars on the opposite side, which measure approx 8" x 1 1/2" with approx 3/4" separation. They've been obliterated prior to repaint but the edges are still quite discernible. Also visible on that side is some remnant numbering, presumably shipping information. The USN itself has been applied on a patch of Dark Blue applied over Light Tone disruptive colour to provide sufficient background contrast. Strangely there's no sign of the ARN having been applied. Remnant black paint may indicate TAC sign but there's no evidence of formation sign having been applied.Regarding the colour code, it's my understanding the digit 8 is indicated by Service Colour in the British system, which I imagine could be either KG3 or SCC2 Brown depending on the period. Australian Army Service Colour was KG3 but in late '43 the colour Medium Green was officially approved as an alternative basic colour: "Khaki Green No 3 or Vehicle Medium Green is now the basic colour for all vehicles." This would lead me to conclude the coloured bars seen here are Medium Green denoting 88. I'll be interested to hear your thoughts. Cheers, Tony
__________________
One of the original Australian CMP hunters. |
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#5
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Hi Tony,
Well, the front shell ended up in good hands then. The figure '8' was indeed represented by the colour 'Service Colour, GS', whatever that was at the time of application. Odd that the bars were applied away from the number: the two were usually mated together for quick visual recognition (the colour bars) then confirmation of the USN. Having them separated would slow down the process. In practice, the colour for 8 was simply green - whatever medium/khaki green the applicator could lay his hands on. The system applied to all a units' kit, so multiple persons and not always the same can of green paint resulted in some wide variations of 'service colour, GS'. I had a collection of various personal kit that had the bar system applied, plus other examples, so have had a chance to see the variations. Regards Mike |
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#6
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Quote:
Quote:
I came across this scan of the US Army POM instruction (Preparation for Overseas Movement) which I've tried to correlate with the original British system from which it derives. I'm assuming they used essentially the same colors and names (except for OD in lieu of Service Colour) and merely shuffled them around a bit. Are you able to confirm please. Cheers, Tony
__________________
One of the original Australian CMP hunters. |
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#7
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Hi Tony,
Is it dark blue, or faded black? Anyway, most Americans don't seem to comprehend that the colour bar/USN system is a British invention, and that it came into use with US Forces in 1942/1943 through use in the ETO. Your document copy reinforces that view: it is marked July 43 and ETO. I wrote an article about the system and its use by US and Brit Commonwealth forces. It was published in Army Motors in 2014 - cannot remember which issue. I have reproduced the text below. Remember this is a US publication, hence the title has a question mark about its origin: Quote:
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#8
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Hi Mike,
It's definitely dark blue to the eye but less obvious in photos. I figure the applicators used 2-digit paint for convenience, rather than stock an extra colour Black purely for use as background. Just a guess of course. Quote:
East India Trading Company flag 1668-1801 cf. Grand Union Flag 1776.png Quote:
Cheers, Tony US Paratroopers of the 82nd Airborne preparing for a jump, North Africa (2).jpg
__________________
One of the original Australian CMP hunters. |
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#9
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Hi Tony,
The number - I think it's 4426 or 4428 - falls within a vacant block in the British system, from 4100 to 4499. There are a number of vacant blocks within the British Field Force unit list, with no indication of where they were allocated to (if at all), so I had no previous indication the block may have been allocated to the US. I suppose an examination of many images of the Op Torch forces, especially those staging from the UK, might help solve that. The 509 PIR (they were not designated a Battalion until later) flew out from airfields in Cornwall, UK, direct to their drop zone near Oran, so were in the UK prior to the Torch operation, and we know the system was operating prior to that. Hence, the unit was a 1942 arrival into the UK, so may well have been allocated such a low number. As for the 'A' suffix, who knows? 'Company A'? 'Airborne'? 'Unit Truck A'? Until more research is done, it's an 'unknown'. Mike Last edited by Mike Cecil; 11-02-20 at 18:22. |
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