Chevrolet 1311X3 15-cwt 4x2 GS truck

[David Dunlop]

You have quite a good selection of frames there, Bob. If this lockdown lasts long enough, you could probably end up building a complete LRD Group of vehicles! The only thing missing would be the sand dunes!

Stay safe,

David

[Grant Bowker]

Originally Posted by Bob Carriere

Can not pass the opportunity to rant and lament the price of steel since the Covid crisis........ some parts (TSC in particular) is not publishing a sales brochure until the stores are allowed to go wide open.....so buying bulk bolts is $6.00 a pound instead of the $2/95 sales price..... new steel is going up every time the local fabricator places a new order...... a 10 foot section of 2.5 x 2.5 in. 1/4 in. thick trailer receiver tube is now $10.60....last fall around $5.00..... and deliveries are sporadic based on whenever they get an order for the Ottawa area.........so building the "rotisserie" entirely out of 1/4 inch thick 2x2 and 2.5x2.5 has been much more than I expected.

At the same time that the price of new steel is up, even without much manufacturing demand to push the price up, the local price we could get for scrap (if we were so "irresponsible" as to load, transport and sell it to the local scrappies) has dropped to $40/tonne. Get less when we sell, pay more when we buy. It reminds me of the movie quote "greed is good", it looks like greed at work although in this case the good doesn't flow to Bob.....

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Bob Carriere

Thanks for thinking of me guys.

Everyone here is surviving the Covid bug as best we can..... easier to do as I live in a rural area away from crowds and there is room to go for a walk without seeing anyone and never leave the property. However, the whole issue with extensive news coverage does drag you down after a while. Never had cabin fever during Spring time but here we go. Spring here as been ideal, with no snow precipitation during the whole month of March....... but I do miss the ability to drive to the village and pickup some nuts and bolts, etc. working alone in the fresh Spring air is nice but not has pleasant as having some one else around to chit chat,compare notes, swap ideas and gets outright boring after a while.

Hello Bob, indeed these are strange times. Recently I read an article that especially for men with their "hanging around together" types of friendship (you know, twirling spanners and drinking beer) are impacted more by the social distancing than (online) "chatty" female friendships. Hang in there, it will be over sometime soon. Whenever I feel locked up, I think of Anne Frank and the thousands of other people who had to live in hiding for many years with the fear of being sent to a concentration camp if caught....

Send my regards to Rob and Grant - maybe this desert truck will give you the inspration for a sorely missed "Hammond Barn" series of threads

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Bob Carriere

I have most of the drive train components, fresh rebuilt engine, spare tranny, plenty of rear ends to choose from and the following chassis..

A fully restored 1937 Chev one ton frame, brakes, linings, bearings all done sitting on original 16 inch Chev truck frame.... car style rims with drop center and a car type brake system........ a 1940 Chev cab would fit beautifully but it is a 1937 One ton GE model, 122 1/4 wheel base with 14" in. brake drums .... so slightly longer. The Good Year diamond threads all agri. weather tires would fit nicely.

I also have a 1940 1533 1.5 ton truck with cab ( long box is shot) but with complete drive train that would need a total overhaul....with enclosed driveshaft tube........ now this has the proper size wheel base......currently shod on 7.50 balloon 20 inch tire/rims that could be replaced with the axles from the spare C15 and that would allow me to use readily available CMP rims and fully mounted set of 900x 16 Michelin tires......

The I also have a 1942 Maple Leaf 2 ton complete frame/power train that could be made into the Canadain/Windsor made LRDG.....
...and finally access to a 1942?? complete frame with CMP shock absorber and factory frame flat steel plate reinforcement attached.

So pondering is an issue.......

I would applaud it if you'd set out to make a replica of the Indian Pattern Chevrolet 1311X3. As none exist (except for the bare bones left in the North African desert), it is infinitely rarer than the 1533X2 which has been replicated many times in every major time zone.

Plus the 1311X3 is a unique mix of US, Canadian and other Commonwealth bits ‘n bobs. Of a handy size, it would be easy to drive, work on and store in a container at the Hammond Barn.

Two topics need researching, which is what MLU Forum is for:

1) Chassis: I am no expert on Chevrolets but going by the info available here, in Bart Vanderveen’s books and the sites listed below, here’s what I found:

1. Model 1311 denotes a Chevrolet Commercial 1/2-Ton Chassis with flat-face cowl.
2. The X3 suffix denotes 'INDIA CKD', i.e. export to India in Completely Knocked Down form, in this case a chassis with flat face cowl.
3. In Wheels & Tracks HMVF Directory Bart Vanderveen writes India imported 1939 and later Canadian ½-ton chassis with right-hand drive, which were assembled and bodied in India.
4. David Hayward listed supply contract S/M 2238, which was for 1,200 ea. 15-cwt 4x2 115” W.B. Chevrolets (most likely our 1941 model 1311X3).
5. So, the 1311X3 was assembled in India from 1939 and later chassis, which would include:
   • 1939 Model JC and 1940 Model KC with 113-1/2” w.b. and (virtually) identical front end
   • 1941 Model AK with 115” w.b. with the later “waterfall” style front end (model 1941-1946)

> From your stock of Chevrolet parts, could you piece one of these together?


2) Body: I have some more pics of the surviving body coming up, stay tuned.

Sources (accessed 28-apr-2020):
http://chevy.oldcarmanualproject.com/models/index.htm
https://www.gmheritagecenter.com/gm-...tion-kits.html
https://www.stovebolt.com/techtips/i...ies/index.html

[Mike K]

hi bob

There should be a easier way of doing a 15 cwt Indian pattern type vehicle. There must be plenty of 1941 to 47 Chev 1/2 ton pickups around in your country , these have the correct 115" wb for a 1941 Indian but the snag is you would need the RHD components . Used to be a number of those 41 to 47 Chev utes around here in Aust., RHD , maybe somebody has one that is only good for parts.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

AWM Negative Number: 045230. Caption: TROOP CARRIER, 15 CWT LORRY, CHEVROLET, 113 1/2 INCH WHEELBASE. INDIAN ARMY VERSION. LEFT REAR VIEW, REAR CANOPY NOT FITTED.

Looked up those AWM pics again and found another picture of a new 3/4 front view. Judiging by the running lights on the front fender, I'd say it is a 1940 Model KC:


"Front view of an Indian Army version Chevrolet 15 cwt lorry (troop carrier) with 113.5 inch wheelbase with rear canopy."

Source: https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/C46238


"AUSTRALIA. LORRIES, 15 CWT. INDIAN ARMY TYPE TROOP CARRIER 113 W.B. CHEVROLET. LEFT SIDE VIEW."

Source: https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/C207879


"Left rear view of an Indian Army version Chevrolet 15 cwt lorry (troop carrier) with 113.5 inch wheelbase. The rear canopy is not fitted."

Source: https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/C46237

[Mike K]

Yes 1940 side lights but a 39 grill .

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Mike Kelly

Yes 1940 side lights but a 39 grill .

Can you educate me about the differences between the '39 and the '40 grill? I'm learning while doing here, thanks.

[Mike K]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Can you educate me about the differences between the '39 and the '40 grill? I'm learning while doing here, thanks.

The 40 model grill has less bars in the grill because of a wider trim piece on top , The 39 is basically all bars right up to the top .

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Mike Kelly

The 40 model grill has less bars in the grill because of a wider trim piece on top , The 39 is basically all bars right up to the top .

Ah yes, thanks. Now that I know what to look for I see the difference.

'39 on the left, '40 on the right:

[Andrew H.]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

I would applaud it if you'd set out to make a replica of the Indian Pattern Chevrolet 1311X3.

I would applaud it too. There are probably some RHD ones around here in NZ with the correct wheel base.

[Mike K]

That 1939 red GMH bodied ute. The present owner found it unrestored in a shed up near Glenrowan , its the original tub on it , original wood frame and skin in like new condition. Pic was taken at the Warragul old wares show a few years back.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

"Object description: General George Patton, C-in-C of the American 7th Army, and General Władysław Anders watching the Carpathian Lancers Regiment exercising, using a M3 Scout Car as a stand (in the background). In the foreground Polish and American officers posing together for a souvenir photograph on the top of a Chevrolet WB 30 cwt truck.. Photograph taken during General Patton's official visit to the 2nd Polish Corps at Qassasin in Egypt."

Source: https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/i...ject/205234840

Here's a better scan of the same picture.

Going by Mike's description, this is a 1940 model. Note the bonnet is marked with "TOBRUK 1941" ans its registation number "395011"

[Hanno Spoelstra]

One more:

"TOBRUK, LIBYA. 1941-10. NX23 MAJOR D.A. CORMACK, 2ND-IN-CHARGE HQ, 9TH AUSTRALIAN DIVISION SIGNALS STANDING BESIDE AN ARMY VEHICLE."



Source: https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/C5227

[Bob Carriere]

....seems to be sitting on Firestone tires with no modifications to the front fenders......


Thanks Hanno

[lynx42]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Ah yes, thanks. Now that I know what to look for I see the difference.

'39 on the left,

This 39 Chev is owned by one of my best mates and he was to travel with us on the now postponed "Back to the Track" trip in a 1946 Chev truck.

The hearse behind is also his and is a Propert bodied 1938 Chev.

Cheers Rick

[Mike K]

Malaya

https://viewer.slv.vic.gov.au/?entit...80&mode=browse

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Mike Kelly

Malaya

https://viewer.slv.vic.gov.au/?entit...80&mode=browse

Great, that's the source of the photo which started off this thread.

"Indian troops in Malaya during World War II. Shows transportation of soldiers in trucks"

Source: http://handle.slv.vic.gov.au/10381/223228

Originally Posted by cliff

Indian Army Vehicle ID Please

I found this photo while searching the Pictures Australia Website. Can any one ID the Indian Army vehicles please?

It is captioned "Indian troops in Malaya during World War II".

sorry I forgot to get a negative number or note which archive it came from.

[Bob Carriere]

both front vehicles have wooden boxed trailers......!!??

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Bob Carriere

both front vehicles have wooden boxed trailers......!!??

I think there aren’t trailers, just a staggered line of trucks

[Bob Carriere]

Hi Hanno

I see things differently......maybe that is why I am going for cataract surgery tomorrow morning.....will look at them again when I return from the hospital.

Unless they are in a "breeding position", I do not think so..... not enough space between them or the spare tires would be showing as they protrude quite a bit.

If they are trailers then they are fitted with wooden boxes same size as the trucks........... beautiful picture though.

Cheers

[Tony Smith]

It's a deceptive photo.

While counting the tires on the ground might lead to thinking it's a trailer, close inspection shows what appears to be a running board leading forward from the "Trailer", and a shadow on the ground much farther forward than where the "Box" of the trailer should end. I think this is a 2nd truck in the line with the cab obscured.

[Bob Carriere]

...I agree.....not a trailer but a truck out of line......

New eye ball is doing fine but will need a redo on the glasses.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

More 1311X3's in use with the LRDG:


Source: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1565...8270888236561/

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Some more in use with the Indian Army



Source: https://www.facebook.com/Indian-Mili...65209500173581

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Some more in use with the Indian Army

Let's not forget the Chevys of the Indian Long Range Patrol

[Hanno Spoelstra]

One more from another thread - click on the "view post" logo to go there:

Originally Posted by Mike Kelly

This is a interesting pic. What size are the wheels on this 41 model ?

[Bob Carriere]

..... the elusive 18 inch rims????? they are using the split rims with the standard GM bolt pattern..... a little easier with more steel to work with than a 16 inch rim....

My best opinion!!!!!

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Stephen Paternoster wrote:

Amazing how they coped in desert my great grandfather was out in Middle East from 1940 to 1943 he was in Kings Dragoon Guards.

[Bob Carriere]

Looks like a split rim but the rimbolts are on the back side......

Looks different than rims on previous photo..... but still large enough to be 18 inches....

...... that truck has been around some rough times.... no water expansion tank.... most of the waterfall grill still in place .....civvy bumper with no brush guard.....

so many variations.....