Elliott's Yard, Ontario in 1993

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Bruce Parker

The Fox in the photo is the one the Elliott's kept for their museum and went to the US. It has two front axles and, because they left the interior 'as-is', it was a wealth of information for my restoration. Paul's Fox was at the lower left, mine in the middle and the museum one on the right. One Otter was in the museum, the other went to a father/son team north of Montreal where it got a coat of post war gloss green paint and disappeared. I tried to look up the owners a few years ago without luck (there is an MLU post on this with pics).

The Fox in the yard were odd, and I think factory seconds. They were marked with welded on triangles and this one with THIN ROOF HULL (now ground off). All had early features (square gauges, no fire suppression, early turret crank) yet were at the end of the production run according to their manufacture dates.

Here are the locations of the Otters and Fox back then and the packing slip that came with them. My Fox is the top one, the Otter and Fox marked 'ours' went to the USA, Paul's is the third line and the other Otter is MIA.

Thanks Bruce,

I did not realise there were multiple Foxes in your photos.

I think the Foxes with welded on triangles and thin roof hull were not factory seconds, they were likely pilot models. As with other armoured vehicles, pilots were constructed of mild steel and would be used for component testing and ironing out the last manufacturing details before committing to full scale production using armour plate. The early features are an indicator of them being pilot models.

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Thanks Bruce,

I did not realise there were multiple Foxes in your photos.

I think the Foxes with welded on triangles and thin roof hull were not factory seconds, they were likely pilot models. As with other armoured vehicles, pilots were constructed of mild steel and would be used for component testing and ironing out the last manufacturing details before committing to full scale production using armour plate. The early features are an indicator of them being pilot models.

Hanno, all my stills are of 'THIN ROOF HULL". The video captures are the Fox that eventually became mine, as is the old photo of the hull that Les Fisher posted. For some reason I didn't take any photos of the one Paul has, though I crawled over it many times.

I would agree with you the welded on markings are prototype or pilot, but I can confirm mine at least is made of hard drill bit breaking armour (it had the triangles). My Fox was built in October 1943 at the end of production which makes me wonder how that can be. Is it possible pilots sat at the GM plant and were given data plates at the end so they could be sent to the army? It's a safe bet most of the Fox left in Canada were for training so hard armour, fire suppression, etc. were not that important, though the vehicles would be well marked to indicate that.

[Ed Storey]

This photograph of a Sd.Kfz. 7 photographed on parliament hill was e-mailed to me.

Sd.Kfz. 7.jpg

As well, I was also sent this image as a comparison which shows how the RCMP have transitioned from using surplus wartime German halftracks to more modern patrol cars for guarding parliament hill.

RCMP Cruiser.jpg

[Ed Storey]

Does anyone know where these two vehicles came from and subsequently ended up?

Fox and Otter [1].jpg

Fox and Otter [2].jpg

[Jordan Baker]

Ed, both are in the Canadian War Museum collection.

3FC73C0E-B423-4A02-84D8-A2C1E2FF2540.jpeg
https://www.warmuseum.ca/collections...ia_irn=5719682


9A199F1E-B249-4A8A-B715-E69D169E3C1A.jpg
http://silverhawkauthor.com/tanks-an...rt-ii_989.html

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

Originally Posted by Ed Storey

Does anyone know where these two vehicles came from and subsequently ended up?

Attachment 118768

Attachment 118769

I think (?) from a wrecking yard just outside of Niagara Falls. In Bill Greg's Blueprint for Victory book there's mention of an Otter and Fox found there. Bill did have an Otter and Fox but these went to Shilo.

[Alex van de Wetering]

Originally Posted by Bruce Parker

Hanno, all my stills are of 'THIN ROOF HULL". The video captures are the Fox that eventually became mine, as is the old photo of the hull that Les Fisher posted. For some reason I didn't take any photos of the one Paul has, though I crawled over it many times.

What about Dirk and Stefans Fox, didn't it come from Elliots as well?

By the way....your Fox looks awesome and I really like the paint colour match.

Alex

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Alex van de Wetering

What about Dirk and Stefans Fox, didn't it come from Elliots as well?

Dirk's first Fox came from Elliots indeed, it was later sold on to Paul Visser after Dirk found a better Fox in Belgium.

Paul had to spend a lot of time searching for the missing parts.

[Alex van de Wetering]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Dirk's first Fox came from Elliots indeed, it was later sold on to Paul Visser after Dirk found a better Fox in Belgium.

Aha; I did't know Dirk's FOX cam from Belgium, I always assumed both Dirk and Paul's Foxes came from Elliots.

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

It is a testament to all the hard work that has gone into this truck. Well done Alex

One should know that every component and part had to be restored as the truck had such a hard life - even the chassis was extensively modified.

Thanks Hanno. Still a lot of work to do though! Hopefully I have the spirit back again soon.

[Brian Gough]

Ed and Bruce,

that wrecking yard near Niagara Falls was owned by John Horosko who at one time had 2 Fox and 2 Otters. Where they went and a whole lot more of the story from 1984 can be found in the article "History Relived in Canada" (the Gregg Canadian Collection) in Wheels & Tracks #7 pages 8-13. The article can be read here:

- edit: link to full issue deleted & replaced by link to copy of article only: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1QdS...ew?usp=sharing

Reading it again reminds me of the great work that Bart Vanderveen did for the HMV hobby. We are also fortunate on the MLU Forum to have several active contributors from those early days.

Brian

[Ed Storey]

Brian, nice to see a pdf copy of WT No. 7 posted to the forum, but I believe that doing so is a breach in copyright with ATB Publications who were the publisher and are still in business.