Valcartier Sherman

[Michael R.]

Originally Posted by James P

What makes you think it is missing ? Eds 1984 pic or did it get pinched since Steves and the first picture showing the tank ?..............BTW I have a pretty good handle on what gun goes where. Q: is the co-axe supposed to stick out that far on this monument tank ?

Hi James, I am not suggesting it is missing... apply your pretty good handle on what gun goes where and yes, as you deduced, the coaxial mounting 1919A4 .30 cal barrel assembly is not as fully exposed, for this particular turret model.

Unlike the co-driver bow gun.

Part of my poking fun at the need to “re-install” the item.
Could well be a most current inspection may reveal the part has been removed.

[maple_leaf_eh]

Originally Posted by Michael R.

Hi James, I am not suggesting it is missing... apply your pretty good handle on what gun goes where and yes, as you deduced, the coaxial mounting 1919A4 .30 cal barrel assembly is not as fully exposed, for this particular turret model.

Unlike the co-driver bow gun.

Part of my poking fun at the need to “re-install” the item.
Could well be a most current inspection may reveal the part has been removed.

Slightly off topic, but relevant to the discussion of Shermans. I see in the top of the left side image "turret cradle lock". Is this a fixture to immobilize the main gun to prevent damage to the gunner's aiming mechanism, the same way other Shermans have a triangular travel lock for the barrel?

[David Herbert]

Michael,
Yes I had spotted that the .30 was protruding too far but opted to add a bit of satire to the subject - oh well, it was worth a try !

Terry,
The interior 'Turret Cradle Lock' does hold the gun at a fixed elevation to relieve the load on the elevation mechanism. There is also a turret traverse lock that engages with the traverse rack on the turret ring to relieve the load on the turret traverse brake on the traverse gearbox. Both these features are operated from inside the turret and so can be easily released if needed.
These features date from the very beginning of Sherman production but it was found quite early on that the external V shaped gun crutch was a much better way to immobilize the gun and turret together during shipping and long advances. There was a way to release the external crutch from inside the tank but it was a bit crude so the original internal locks were retained and gradually made more substantial as Shermans were developed and were intended to be used when there was a possibility of action but a long advance needed to be made.

David

[Michael R.]

David:

you got me. I should have known better.


The spring loaded “turret cradle lock” showing above and centred on the main gun. The turret traverse lock handle is usually painted red: part time users with age onset memory loss beware. The hydraulic powered turret traverse is not forgiving.

[Ed Storey]

Perhaps the M1919A4 MGs were not fitted that often.

M4A2E8 Sherman.jpg

[David Herbert]

I would doubt that Shermans would go into action without their .30s as they were very necessary for suppressing attacks from infantry.

I have not seen the shelf before that is fitted in front of the driver's hatch in the photo above. It is certainly not factory. I am thinking that it is too late to be for anti gas paint so possibly the driver's way to avoid water being pushed up the glassis plate and into his hatch when ploughing through deep water.

I suspect that that photo was taken on a training exercise in Canada well post war so no need for MGs.

David

[James P]

Originally Posted by David Herbert

I would doubt that Shermans would go into action without their .30s as they were very necessary for suppressing attacks from infantry.

I have not seen the shelf before that is fitted in front of the driver's hatch in the photo above. It is certainly not factory. I am thinking that it is too late to be for anti gas paint so possibly the driver's way to avoid water being pushed up the glassis plate and into his hatch when ploughing through deep water.

I suspect that that photo was taken on a training exercise in Canada well post war so no need for MGs.

David

Weapons on the turret top, C1 SMG and a 1919 that looks fitted with a cone shaped BFA atop a tripod say ex somewhere in Canada.

[Michael R.]

Originally Posted by David Herbert

... (paraphrased)
I have not seen the shelf before that is fitted in front of the driver's hatch in the photo above. It is certainly not factory. I am thinking that it is too late to be for anti gas paint so possibly the driver's way to avoid water being pushed up the glassis plate and into his hatch when ploughing through deep water.
David

While not all of the Canadian used M4’s from the former Russian Lend Lease order were subsequently fitted in Canada with the extension plate welded in front of the driver hatch: it is a godsend.

Not only for an extended place to step, but it helps to catch debris that migrates off the track while under way. I am convinced without a supporting (pun) CFTO to verify the intent, the shelf is intended as a step. The absence of one on the co-driver side suggests there was little concern about getting a face full of whatever.

Slips and falls off the M4, as well as any other armour, are not encouraged. There is a core (Corps ?) group who do not need to be reminded.