Kangaroo Photos wanted

[kevinT]

These come various sources, IWM, Bill and Barry Miller to name just a few.

Cheers

Kevin

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by kevinT

Hi Hanno here are a few more Kangaroos from 49th APCR

Blackpool
Captor
Comet
King John
Mars
Merlin
Neptune
Raider
Revenge
Rotherham
Spear
Tapir
Todmorden

Kevin,

Do you have a listing for TYRANT?

9B02BDA5-B70E-4FB2-9840-26C464A5861A.jpeg

[kevinT]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Kevin,

Do you have a listing for TYRANT?

Attachment 128924

Hi Hanno,

Only the census CT 160052 and was part of F Squadron.

Cheers

Kevin

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
a fierce fight was fought at 't Woold during which several dozens of German and English soldiers died.

Found some more info (source):

On 30 March 1945 the Allies approached 't Woold. German soldiers, armed with machine-guns and Panzerfausts, hid in the fields and in farms. When it became clear the British were much closer than expected, the Germans retreated. The German tanks crossed the border behind Rosenhoeve between border markers 762 and 763. Shots were fired across, a number of tanks being put out of action. Dozens of Biritsh and German soldiers died. After the Battle at ´t Woold the fallen soldiers were buried temporarily in the verge of the road.

And (source):

On 30th March a troop of 'B' Squadron of 3rd/4th CLY in support of 6th Royal Welsh Fusiliers cleared the area to the north of river at Bocholt, by first light. At 04:30, 'C' Squadron had joined 10th HLI and moved off at first light with 53rd Recce Regt in the lead. Undefended minefields were encountered as they advance, but machine gunfire from a Customs House caused the Squadron to deploy and shoot up enemy in houses at both sides of the road. One tank was brewed by anti-tank fire when an attempt was made to outflank to the left. Elsewhere, 'A' Squadron had moved through Bocholt to Winterswijk, but some German self-propelled anti-tank guns were encountered on the way which shot up seven Kangaroos and one 3rd/4th CLY RHQ recce Stuart tank. On 31st March 1945, 3rd/4th CLY had 'B' Squadron in support of 4th Royal Welsh Fusiliers, of 71st Brigade, and took anti-tank positions at as they advanced. 'B' Squadron the passed through Winterswijk and continued advance with 10th HLI to Vreden, reaching it against light opposition. They then pushed on to Alsatte, where strong opposition was encountered at and one tank was lost to 88mm fire. Two 88mm guns were destroyed by 'B' Squadron which then helped the infantry to consolidate. By 15;00 'A' Squadron had moved behind 1st Ox & Bucks through Winterswijk to area ½ mile East of Vreden and leaguered there for the night. The Brigade now had orders to concentrate the brigade clear of Oding, which they did, while 3rd/4th CLY stayed with 71st Brigade beyond Vreden.

Also (source):

1100 - A Sqn moved through BOCHOLT to WINTERSWIJK 3375. Some SPs were encountered which shot up 7 Kangaroos and 1 Regtl recce Stuart tank.
Claims:- 40 POWs
Casualties:- nil

[Bill Miller]

Hi Hanno,

Thanks for the interesting links. I had seen those photos before, but it never occurred to me that they were knocked out!? They look very recoverable.

According to the 1945 book "The Story of the 79th Armoured Division", these are tanks of "F" Squadron, 49APCR. Also, the 79 AD book mentions a total of 8 kangaroos being knocked out.

"F" Squadron is interesting as it was a newly formed increment to the 49APCR just for the Rhine crossings. It was created from the 52nd Tank Squadron and fitted with Rams in the first week of March 1945.

Bill.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Bill Miller
I had seen those photos before, but it never occurred to me that they were knocked out!? They look very recoverable.

Yes, it could very well be they were put back in action the next day. Relatively few tanks being knocked-out were actually write-offs. Damage such as a track and/or a road wheel being shot off is repairable. Even when the armour is pierced by a Panzerfaust, it was a matter of patching the hole, cleaning up the interior (...) and re-issue the tank. Death Traps by Belton Cooper gives a good real-world insight on recovering and repairing knocked-out tanks.

According to the 1945 book "The Story of the 79th Armoured Division", these are tanks of "F" Squadron, 49APCR. Also, the 79 AD book mentions a total of 8 kangaroos being knocked out.

"F" Squadron is interesting as it was a newly formed increment to the 49APCR just for the Rhine crossings. It was created from the 52nd Tank Squadron and fitted with Rams in the first week of March 1945.

According to the 49th APCR Honour Role, Sergeant Kenneth Frederick Webber of "F" Sqn was killed on 30 March 1945. He must have been killed at 't Woold, he is buried at the nearby Winterswijk Cemetery.
Possibly Trooper Edwin Barryll Burbidge, who died on 1 April 1945, was mortally wounded during this battle too?

H.

[Marco C.]

Originally posted by John McGillivray
I have found this photo taken at the same location as the photo posted by Hanno. It is from the Concord book “British Tanks of WWII (2) Holland & Germany 1944/1945”

It was taken in the town of Kranenburg on the way to Cleve. The troops are from the 2nd Bn The Gordon Highlanders, 15th (Scottish) Division. There are two other photos of Ram Kangaroos carrying 15th Div troops in this book, however the authors do not give any source for these photos.

Yes this Picture was taken in Kranenburg from Nijmegen richtung Cleve

Iam comming from Cleve near the Reichswaldforrest

[Mark W. Tonner]

Was looking for something and came across this photo:

Photo No.: BU 1625
Photographer: Smith (Sgt) No 5 Army Film & Photographic Unit
Collection Title: WAR OFFICE SECOND WORLD WAR OFFICIAL COLLECTION
Collection No.: 4700-30
Description: THE BRITISH ARMY IN NORTH-WEST EUROPE 1944-45
Churchill tanks and infantry in Ram Kangaroo personnel carriers assemble for an attack by 6th Middlesex Regiment and the 7th Hampshires against the villages of Putt and Waldenrath, 22 January 1945.

- if the description is correct, the Kangaroos pictured belong to 1 CACR ("A" Sqn) who lifted 7th Hampshires during their successful attacks on both Putt and Waldenrath on 22 Jan 45 (this was during Operation BLACKCOCK)

[Roddy de Normann]

Hi there -

Just to add an additional pic from my own collection...a Brit veh moving through Gemon, Germany on 2 Apr 45. The inf are from 7th Armd Div, prob 157 Bde moving out of the Ems line.

Roddy1011

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally posted by Roddy1011
Just to add an additional pic from my own collection...a Brit veh moving through Gemon, Germany on 2 Apr 45. The inf are from 7th Armd Div, prob 157 Bde moving out of the Ems line.

... where is the picture?

[Roddy de Normann]

Apologies - but I am totally defeated by how one is meant to post a pic on this Forum - not much use for those of us not so adept - shame really.

Roddy

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally posted by Roddy1011
Apologies - but I am totally defeated by how one is meant to post a pic on this Forum - not much use for those of us not so adept - shame really.

Hi Roddy;

Send me your picture and I will post it to this thread on your behalf. I have just sent you my e-mail address by private message on this forum.

Cheers

[Bill Miller]

Aug 1945. Probably Op. Tractable. Testing Frame capture of Can Army Newsreel.

[Bill Miller]

another two ...

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Bill Miller
Aug 1945. Probably Op. Tractable. Testing Frame capture of Can Army Newsreel.

Interesting! Capturing frames seems to work well. Keep going

H.

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

Good stuff, Bill! You realize, of course, that there's a significant chance we have met one of the drivers of those Priests, and certainly, one of those involved in their conversion...

These video clips were originally used in the CANADA AT WAR series, of which I have a copy. I've often wanted to make those screen captures myself for the site and for one of their reunions, but I don't possess the software or hardware for this, so keep them coming!

[John McGillivray]

Geoff,

You can download a demo copy of Cyberlink Power DVD at the link below.
You can use it for 30 days to get all the captures you want.

http://www.cyberlink.com/multi/downl...als_1_ENU.html

[Hanno Spoelstra]

crowd_welcome.jpg
http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data...wd_welcome.jpg

Photo by Donald I. Grant. Department of National Defence / National Archives of Canada, PA-131564.

Crowd welcoming the Stormont, Dundas and Glengarry Highlanders of Canada to Leeuwarden, the Netherlands, April 16th, 1945.

Source: http://www.combatcamera.forces.gc.ca

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
Temporary graves after "the battle for 't Woold".

"W. Kipp Anderson" <wkipp@alltel.net> wrote:

Hi Hanno, I was looking over some old Kangaroo postings on MLU and found one of interest in the photo you posted of the 't Woold battle aftermath. It appears that this Kangaroo is still engined with the Wright and not the Continental - hence the pepperpot exhaust. This is the only photo I've seen indicating this. At this late date would these Ram II hulls have come from the last remaining batches in England at Dagenham and if so would they have had the cast side ventilators that stood proud (not the cast- in bulges) and remained in SCC2 ?

Hi Kipp,

Interesting, I had not noticed that! I have looked up my list of production changes and determined that from CT-40028 onwards the R975-EC2 engine was replaced by the R975-C1, leading to alterations of the lower hull back plate because of changes in exhaust. This means the Ram Kangaroo in this picture was one of the first 247 built, but most likely a Ram II with hull side doors (these were discared shortly after the change in engine type).
The only picture of a Ram Kangaroo with hull side doors I have seen is on Henk Kuipers' website (see below).
Personally I'm convinced these Ram Kangaroos were painted SCC2.

Hope this helps,
Hanno

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Bill Miller
One of the pictures posted here is definitely postwar. The Ram coming over the hill, three vertical bars painted on the front, radio guy sitting in the aux turret. is part of a post war series that Bovington has and is similar to "kangaroo" excercises, Pathé newsreel 2525.26 circa 1950? BTW there are shots of other "funnies" in action in this reel (Crabs and Crocs).

Bill, could this pic be a still from that newsreel? It's a postwar shot, note the WD no. 67ZR61.

The armoured air intake is of interest also, still not sure if this was a wartime addition.

H.

[Bill Miller]

Yup, that photo was taken during the same excercise as the other postwar photos I've seen and the Pathé newsreel. The number on the side of the foreground Ram matches the one in the newsreel. Though this scene is not in the reel. (Reels actually, there are two parts to the film)

The Photo from Henk Kuipers website is of C Squadron, 49APCR. The documentation I got recently shows that we really shafted the British Army when it came to the Rams we gave them. They received pretty much exclusively all really early Rams of the 39000 and 40000 series. Another Pathé newsreel that shows C Squadron rolling into Hamburg shows several early Rams with hull side doors.

I have a list of destroyed and recovered kangaroos used by the 1CACR during Ops Blackcock and Veritable. That list includes 3 or 4 early Rams (40000 series) but also notes they were reclaimed "crocks". My list of the original 106 Rams converted for the 1CACR are all 159000 and 160000 series.

I think the engine cover shown in your photo Hanno is a Post-war modification? I haven't seen it on any of the wartime photos I have or have seen. But then again, very few of those photos clearly show that part of the tank.

Bill.

[servicepub (RIP)]

I have a document somewhere in my office where CMHQ states quite clearly that they intend to retain those Rams with WD numbers of 159402 and higher. This group is what they termed 'operational' tanks. Anything else was to be Struck Off Strength to the War Office or relegated to the CRUs for training.

[tankmodeler]

Originally posted by servicepub
The documentation I got recently shows that we really shafted the British Army when it came to the Rams we gave them.

Starts to make up for the POS softskins 5th Cdn Arm'd got in Italy, no? :-)

Paul Roberts

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra


Photo by Donald I. Grant. Department of National Defence / National Archives of Canada, PA-131564.

Crowd welcoming the Stormont, Dundas and Glengarry Highlanders of Canada to Leeuwarden, the Netherlands, April 16th, 1945.

Source: http://www.combatcamera.forces.gc.ca

Hi Hanno;

Actually, these are not RAM Kangaroos, but are RAM armoured gun tractors (17 pounder towers) of the 6th Anti-Tank Regiment, R.C.A.

I have come across this photo before and going back over my notes:

In the 9th Canadian Infantry Brigade's dash for Leeuwarden, the infantry rode in borrowed RAM armoured gun tractors of the 6th Anti-Tank Regiment, R.C.A. and in miscellaneous vehicles of the 14th Field Regiment, R.C.A. and 27th Armoured Regiment (The Sherbrooke Fusilier Regiment), C.A.C., The first troops of the 3rd Cdn Inf Div to reach Leeuwarden, were elements of the 7th Reconnaissance Regiment (17th Duke of York's Royal Canadian Hussars), C.A.C., who entered the town on the afternoon of the 15th only to find the 1st Armoured Car Regiment (Royal Canadian Dragoons), C.A.C. already there.

At the time, "A" Sqn, 1 CACR was in support of 2nd Cdn Inf Div and "B" Sqn, 1 CACR was in support of 4th Cdn Armd Div, with both squadrons in harbour ("A" Sqn - Groningen and "B" Sqn - Neuronburg) doing maintenance and repairs on their tanks on 15 and 16 April, 1945.

Just thought I'd pass this along.

Cheers

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Mark W. Tonner
Actually, these are not RAM Kangaroos, but are RAM armoured gun tractors (17 pounder towers) of the 6th Anti-Tank Regiment, R.C.A.

Thanks Mark!

H.

P.S. "Neuronburg" is most likely "Neurenberg".

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Bill Miller
The Photo from Henk Kuipers website is of C Squadron, 49APCR. The documentation I got recently shows that we really shafted the British Army when it came to the Rams we gave them. They received pretty much exclusively all really early Rams of the 39000 and 40000 series. Another Pathé newsreel that shows C Squadron rolling into Hamburg shows several early Rams with hull side doors.

Following my reply to Kipp I had only seen one picture of a Ram Kangaroo with hull side doors, Kipp Anderson sent me the following e-mail:

Hi Hanno, Many many thanks for that info. As I had never seen a Kangaroo with the side doors intact-I thought that it would have had the ventilators only. However it makes sense that if they had the earlier engine they would still have had the side doors especially if they were the last of the last. As they had proven their worth well before then, I guess that made any and all that were still left in England available.

So now that the can of worms was opened, I started to dig through my books to see if I could find another photo or two of a side door intact Kangaroo.

I had always thought something looked strange on the third Kangaroo in this first photo that is in George Forty's Road to Berlin. It has a side mounted ventilator like the second one in the row but it seems to be higher and there is a flat area where it is mounted-could this be a door?

Thankfully Forty included the IMW print number in his caption, so I went to the IWM website and punched it up-Bingo!!!!!

The original photo-
BU 2846
Ram Kangaroo personnel carriers carrying troops of the 9th Durham Light Infantry near Weske, 31 March 1945.


BU 2847
Ram Kangaroo personnel carriers carrying troops of the 9th Durham Light Infantry near Weske, 31 March 1945.


BU 2823
A Cromwell tank and Ram Kangaroo personnel carriers in Weseke, 29 March 1945.


BU 3648
Ram Kangaroo personnel carriers of 4th Armoured Brigade in Rethem, 16 April 1945.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Quite a well known pic, PA49826. Needs details added here, but I could not punch them up on Archivianet.


Source: armouredacorn.com

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Bill Miller
In all the photos that I have that can be clearly identified as 1CACR and clearly 49APCR (and there are many) almost all the 1CACR Rams are mid to late production "ball mount MG" with the 6 digit CT #'s, Sherman type suspension. Almost all the 49APCR Rams are the early to mid production "auxillary turret type, 5 digit CT #'s. The Rams supplied to the British all retained their CT #'s right to the end of the war. The best evidence of this can be seen in the Pathé newsreel of kangaroos in Hamburg Germany May 3rd, 1945. British Pathé ID # 2026.02

1CACR were never in Hamburg so this IS definitely 49APCR. There is a lot of great footage of columns of kangaroos, some can be seen to be very early type Rams with the side hull doors!

Kipp Anderson looked up this still from the British Pathé reel that Bill Miller mentioned in his post. It is quite dark in the original, so he has lightened it a bit.

[Bill Miller]

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
Quite a well known pic, PA49826. Needs details added here, but I could not punch them up on Archivianet.


Source: armouredacorn.com

Hi Hanno,

The PA number listed for the photo you posted is the old original negative number . It has a new PA number and description:

REFERENCE NUMBERS:
_ ACCESSION:_ _ 1967-052
_ REPRODUCTION:_ _ PA-159252 (copy negative number);

Sherman tanks lined up along the route await the order to proceed with the infantry - 4th Canadian Armed Division chasing German paratroopers out of town
1945 / Wertle, Germany — 1 item — 2 1/4 sq. in.

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
Quite a well known pic, PA49826. Needs details added here, but I could not punch them up on Archivianet.


Source: armouredacorn.com

Hi Hanno/Bill;

Some more details regarding this photo. If indeed it was taken at Wertle, the Kangaroos would be those of "B" Sqn, 1 CACR and the tanks would be those of the 21 Cdn Armd Regt (GGFG).

Cheers