Help with slings

[Colin Alford]

An interesting discussion!

The August 1942, Carbines, Machine, Sten, 9mm, Mks I, II & III, Illustrated Identification List can be found here: https://stephentaylorhistorian.files...t_1942_150.pdf

Info regarding slings can be found on pages 22 and 23. The standard rifle sling was used for Mk I Sten, whereas Mks II and III used “BE 8574, Slings, Carbine, Machine, Sten, 9mm.” The illustration notes that the overall length of this sling is
36” and it appears to be non-adjustable (note, I can’t seem to take a screenshot of the PDF, but I have attached the illustration that I found at a different source).

The 1944, Parts list for Carbine, Machine, Sten, 9mm, Mk V, can be found here:

http://www.karkeeweb.com/patterns/19...n_MkV_1944.pdf

Info regarding the sling can be found on pages 18 and 19. This seemingly longer and adjustable sling is known as “BE 8504, Sling, Carbine, Machine, Sten, 9mm, Mk II”

My interpretation is that there were two Sten slings.

Perry, when you measured the 32” was this the overall length including the metal fittings, or just the webbing? Are these Canadian slings actually shorter than the 36” total length noted in the 1942 British ID List?

For someone with access to an adjustable sling: What is the total extended length?

The second image I have attached of the adjustable sling with stores tag was found at the LWD Parts website: https://www.lwdparts.com/product/ste...nos-war-dated/


Regards,
Colin

[Michael R.]

thank you Stefan

[Ed Storey]

You guys were fast on posting the Sten sling information; while digging about I found this reference to the Mk II (113) and Mk III (114) Sten Slings on page 9 in my copy of CW-2 Canadian Ordnance Catalogue - Parts Identification List - Carbine, Machine, Sten, 9mm, Cdn Mk 2-1 - 1953.

Page 9 (2) copy.jpg

[Ed Storey]

Originally Posted by Ed Storey

You guys were fast on posting the Sten sling information; while digging about I found this reference to the Mk II (113) and Mk III (114) Sten Slings on page 9 in my copy of CW-2 Canadian Ordnance Catalogue - Parts Identification List - Carbine, Machine, Sten, 9mm, Cdn Mk 2-1 - 1953.

Attachment 120946

Rob,

This was from the Parts Identification List for the Sten Cdn Mk 2-1 and it only shows the Mk II and Mk III Sling.

ED

[Colin Alford]

Gents,

It seems that my previous link to the Karkee Web site is not working well.

The 1944 Mk V Sten parts list can be found near the bottom of this page:

http://www.karkeeweb.com/patterns/19...net_frogs.html

There are also images from a British 1951 Mk V Sten parts list. Those images include the nomenclature for the MkII and MK III Slings, which show the VAOS numbers and drawing numbers (the drawing numbers match those listed above by Rob).

My current thoughts are that the slings in question (short and non-adjustable) are the first pattern of Sten sling (VAOS B3 BE 8574). The fact that the surviving examples are a few inches shorter than the 36” described in the British 1942 Parts ID list could have been due to a Canadian production error. There might have been a mistake where the webbing was cut to the “finished length”, and then when it was folded and riveted, it was too short. It seems that this style of sling in unissued condition, was (at least in the past) relatively plentiful on this side of the pond. Maybe it was recognized that they were too short and were purposefully not issued (ideally this would have been caught prior to receiving an acceptance stamp).

I looked through some of the CMHQ files on Sten guns, but they don’t include much correspondence regarding Canadian production (other than quantities and when to expect shipments). There were a number of documents regarding how motorcyclists should carry Stens. The attached document states “The provision of a lengthened sling for the Sten was approved in September 1942 and is now standard”.

[Ed Storey]

Colin, what Sten sling quantities were quoted in the documents? The question I have is why do these shortened 'slings' lack a manufacturer/date stamp; as was this stamp not added at the end of the production process? I cannot think of many pieces which only have a 'C Broad Arrow' and as it is, these were parts for other major assemblies.

[Perry Kitson]

Colin,

32" including the fittings. Not adjustable.

[Colin Alford]

Originally Posted by Ed Storey

Colin, what Sten sling quantities were quoted in the documents? The question I have is why do these shortened 'slings' lack a manufacturer/date stamp; as was this stamp not added at the end of the production process? I cannot think of many pieces which only have a 'C Broad Arrow' and as it is, these were parts for other major assemblies.

Ed,

The quantities I mentioned were monthly quantities of Canadian produced Stens that were being shipped, not sling quantities.

I just captured these images of a couple of slings that had been packed in a box for approx 25 years. A 1942 Z.L.&T non-adjustable, and a 1944 British (hard to read the maker) adjustable.

[rob love]

Originally Posted by Colin Alford

Gents,

It seems that this style of sling in unissued condition, was (at least in the past) relatively plentiful on this side of the pond. Maybe it was recognized that they were too short and were purposefully not issued (ideally this would have been caught prior to receiving an acceptance stamp).

Most of the ones I have are used and dirty. When I get to the gun room next I'll see if there are any makers marks.

[rob love]

I just measured one that I had sitting on the desk, and it comes in at 31".
The Cdn manual lists two sten slings. Drawing DD(E)3331 (NSN 1005-21-103-8405)is for the mk2 sten, and drawing DD(E)659/G/4 *NSN 1005-21-103-8404) is for the mk3 sten. The illustrations for both slings show it as being adjustable, however it shows more of a dog clip on both ends of the mk3 sling as compared to the pig tail and loop of the traditional sling. (Ed beat me to posting the photos)



The only sten variation that I can think of that is shorter is the CDN Mk2/1 which is the mk2 fitted with the pistol grip for airborne use, but at the end of the day the sling will start at the part of the butt closest to the endcap, so the working length of the sling really does not change. And if these shorter straps were for that version, I would think they would be listed as such in my 1959 dated manual.



I'll be reaching for my copy of the "Sten Machine Carbine" by Laidler in the next few minutes to see if it sheds any light on these.