Reference: Top Bows - 15-cwt truck

[Bob Carriere]

We measured what we believe are original centre ridge pipes.....4 of them that were gifted by David Moore.

Diametre 1 1/16 about 1/8 thick threaded water pipe. Grant is trying to find what out what is currently available for making repro.

Yes Hanno by all accounts (99%) from pictures the 2B1 hasthe floppy bows with no horizontal bars like the cab 13, No happy with floppy bows!!!!

The curious thing about the centre ridge bars is that they are made of 3 pieces joined by thread and a simple union section.

The ex Jon S. cab 13 that is now owned by Gary in Kingston has what I believe is original bows/pipes and original dated 1943 tarp and will get measurements from him soon.

Are the hooks that you showed onMLU from a 2C1 or a early 2B1

Will take some pictures of my box rebuild progress today.

Hoping to do a second coat of POR today if the winds calm down.

Cheers

[Grant Bowker]

The nearest modern equivalent pipe to the ones described by Bob above is 3/4" nominal schedule 40 pipe. The differences in dimension (both OD and wall thickness) are less than 0.010" - close enough that I think it can be called a match.
One interesting observation - the pipes are made in three parts, two shorter at the ends and a longer in the middle, joined by threaded couplers. The ends of the couplers appear to be more rounded than modern equivalents, possibly a modification to make them less hard on the tarp? The construction of the pipe is such that I think it would have always been either fully installed or fully removed. I don't see how it could easily have been set up to allow only two of the three bows on a 15cwt box to be used as would have been possible with the shorter piles pictured above. Also, unlike the pipes shown above that mount to pins, these pipes seem to have been made to be fitted with carriage bolts (remnants of square holes). The ends of the pipes are slightly curved in the flattened section to wrap around the upright and reduce wear on the tarp. The sample pipes are also too long to fit the uprights of a 2B1 box.

However, most of these features (mounting style, single, full length pipe and longer overall length appear consistent with the body for a 8 cwt, which is what David Moore had.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Bob, Grant,

I'll post my measurements later, first need to transform my scribbling into something presentable.

I also found a refence to top bows for the 2B1 box: there were two types, the second one had the vertical tie bars as on the later 2C1 and upwards bodies.

Not sure what you have there Bob, show us some pictures ;-)

But the 15-cwt top bows were made from a single piece of tube, so no threaded joins with union section. CMPs were not designed to go in a sea can as they had not been invented yet - sorry Bob, but you will have to take off your top bows every time you store the truck. Or discard originality and copy the system on the 3-ton truck where the bows could be set in a high or low position.

More later.

[Chris Suslowicz]

Originally Posted by Grant Bowker

One interesting observation - the pipes are made in three parts, two shorter at the ends and a longer in the middle, joined by threaded couplers. The ends of the couplers appear to be more rounded than modern equivalents, possibly a modification to make them less hard on the tarp?

I think it's just the modern trend for cost-cutting. All the steel pipe unions my father had in the garage/shed (1, 1.5 and 2 inch) all had rounded ends - no sharp edges. These were all pre-1960, I would think. Old conduit 'nipples' were also a 'no sharp edges' rounded end. I think it's only the more recent mass-produced stuff that is parted-off square (and to hell with any cuts the users get from sharp edges - they should wear gloves approach to manufacturing).

Handrail unions are another matter, but they are cast and secured by grub screws (mostly).

Chris.

[Bob Carriere]

Hi Hanno.

I am resigned to removing the bows unless I keep the canvass on full time.

Sea cans are nice and secure but they do have limitations.

My 3 box is definitely 2B1 of which I am making one from the best. We managed to save the best for the rebuild since it has a decent floor and fender wells in place........ yes photos will follow.

My cab 11 is allegedly early production ...Fall 1940 for 4x4....... but the box came from a Cab 12.

It looks like we will be using one piece water pipes schedule 40 (standard) 3/4 ID pipe...... no union. Hoping not to make mistakes in the bending process or will cut.......make and insert....weld and grind and paintover. In fact it maybe easier to do all the bends at the proper radius-ed with my hydraulic bender then fit them together with perfect length.

Now I am not sure if I can used the hooks you showed on a 2B1 in particular the first one behind the cab with the box drop sides and the special corner shaped locking bracket/clamp......

Waiting for the POR to dry right now..... the rotisserie has proven to be a great time and back saver........ how ever when it comes to painting the under side the mounting frame section I am using got in the way ...so we lowered the box on shop horses....removed the u bolts and lifted the rotisserie support as high as we could go then went on with the painting....more like dabbing and slapping the POR coating into every nook and cranny......messy even with rubber gloves. Will reconnect to the rotisserie to finish the top side. Eventually the bottom side will get rubber spray coating then i coat of gloss OD then 2 coats of flat OD. Top side still needs the head board and tailgate fabricated .

Cheers

[David Dunlop]

Hello Bob.

I was just out in the back garden with our puppy and noticed our gate in the chain link fence and its construction caught my eye. Photos attached.

The pipe used appears to be a 1.25 inch OD and the gate is formed in two vertical C-shaped sections fitted together at the centre points. Normally, this type of sleeved fitting involved flaring one end to a larger diameter to accept the nominal sized pipe. In this case, one pipe end is drawn to a smaller diameter to fit inside the nominal pipe size so a much smoother outer diameter is maintained.

This looks like a technique that might work well in fabricating CMP top bows and Chain Link Fence suppliers might have access to pipe sizes that would work, so I thought I would pass it along.

David

[Bob Carriere]

Thanks David......... as soon as the lock down is lifted I will look up the fencing contractors............ or look for a neighbors fence I can take down.

Bob C

[david moore]

Bob, Those longitudinal pipes that I gave you - I think the union join is bogus in that the original civvy owner of the F8 here in Kingston (a Mr. Montgomery!) had not realised that the front and rear transverse bows had an offset base to allow the bows to be flush against each respective end. Rather amazingly, he had installed them wrong way round - so needed to shorten the longitudinals by about 6 ins, to match! He cut and rejoined them as they are now. Too short for the correct fitting on the F8 which is why I passed them on! Jonathan now has my old F8 and could check the dimensions of the original existing transverse bows. Tom Lodge and I made the replacement longitudinals from commonly available conduit and they looked fine. The bows on the cab 12 F and C 8's were entirely different from the later C/F15A's - but the pipe may have been the same.

[david moore]

By the way, Bob, the ex- John S C15a was ex- me before that - and I bought it from the late Lorne Ertl who had restored it. He may well have rebuilt/created the bows so they may no be entirely original.

[Bob Carriere]

..... will we ever see one another this Summer????

[david moore]

Bob
Let's hope that 2022 will see the gatherings starting up again - but I fear that it may take a real effort to get things going again. I sense that Kingston Bivouac may have lost its steam! Hope not.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Bob Carriere

Are the hooks that you showed onMLU from a 2C1 or a early 2B1

The hooks showed in post #13 are on my truck's 2C1 body.