(Australian) ARN listing

[Douglas Greville]

Hello all.

I have a jeep wreck with an Aussie rego number and in the disposal listing
is "Ford Co San (or Son or Sam or Som) and then NMT-A-2737".
Unfortunately no date.

Can anyone decipher this for me please?

Regards
Doug

[Mike K]

SAN = Sales Advice Note . A note issued by the Disposals Commision to the buyer I think. A receipt of sorts.

[Douglas Greville]

Thanks Mike.

[Mike Cecil]

N = NSW point of sale
MT = Mechanised/Motor Transport


Ford Motor Company: CDC rules were to offer vehicles to the original supplier at set prices, the price range depending upon condition, if not required by another Govt department. The last ones on the buyer disposal list were the general public.


Sales Advice Notes were issued by the CDC to the originating agency, ie Army in this case, to confirm proper disposal and provide a point of reference. They were probably issued to the buyer as well. I am not aware of anyone locating any original CDC lists of SANs issued, the only surviving reference being the notations in AWM126.

Having a SAN number would normally indicate the sale took place either in the last year or so of the war, or in the few years afterwards. They are shown in red ink in AWM126. Later disposals of jeeps are annotated as being disposed of by Board of Survey by Army and sent for auction. These are usually in blue biro.

Mike

[Douglas Greville]

Thanks for the info Mike.

Yes, my vehicle is in AWM 126 and the notation is in red ink.

When it says "Ford Co" was that Ford based in Geelong or would
it have been a Ford dealer in say Sydney?

[Douglas Greville]

On the same page there is a second vehicle sold with the same NMT-A-2737 notation.
A random look through book 20 shows other entries the same.
So I am guessing that Ford did a buy up at a particular auction or at many
auctions and all got grouped under SAN 2737?

[Mike Cecil]

Ford Motor Company of Australia were the buyer, but often delegated to the local dealership to shift the stock. Ford didn't buy at auction: they were offered groups of Ford vehicles at various locations and pick and chose, at predetermined prices. Same with other suppliers like Willys, GM, etc. Only what was left was sent to auction to the general public.

Mike

[Douglas Greville]

Mike

That was a nice cosy arrangement for the big end of town.....

[Mike K]

Originally Posted by Douglas Greville

Mike

That was a nice cosy arrangement for the big end of town.....

Yes it was !

The Willys MBs were mostly bought by the pre-war Willys dealerships i.e. Stokoe Motors in Melbourne or Dominion Motors in QLD. Carpenter Co. is one often seen buyer of jeeps in the ARN books. Who or what was Carpenter Co. ? Pre-war, Willys didn't have a large central assembly factory in Australia like Ford or GM-H did, it appears the pre-war Willys sales were handled by smaller individual firms. GM-H were making Willys car bodies but they were not distributing Willys products.

Getting back to disposals: Did these Willys dealerships/buyers (or Ford) send their representatives out to pick out the best jeeps or were they allocated individual jeeps by the CDC ? Who decided what the fate of the individual jeeps was ?

The description of jeeps is interesting: 'TOURER' is one seen.

There was a long list of jeep recipients: Some jeeps went to the NEI forces, some were transferred to the RAN during the war . What became of those ?

This Australian newspaper advert is dated August 1942 which is quite early, Dominion motors ( Sydney branch ) were looking ahead at Willys jeep sales post war.

[Mike K]

A jeep for you Doug: at Broken Hill

Some jeeps were sold to individuals. the ARN ledger does confirm this. Maybe a relative of a politician !

125772 was purchased by a Major B Cook

125792 went to Mr. Cooper

[Douglas Greville]

Mike

Excellent find Mike.

Of all the coincidences, about 30 years ago I got the last dregs of jeep parts from that station.
Highly likely that the parts I got are from this very same jeep as it would have been the one
scavenged with the unwanted bits thrown in the dirt, which is where I picked them up from.
Absolutely nothing left at that point.

From stories I was told, he had either 3 or 4 over the years. But I had missed out on the complete ones by 5 to 10 years.

How do you know the ledge confirms it, could you point me to it please?

Besides that, how the heck did you find that newspaper clipping?

Regards
Doug

[Mike K]

hi Doug

Sorry you missed the jeeps at that station !

The archived newspaper articles are available on TROVE . You can search TROVE using your own reference points. Use terms like "jeep disposals "

The individuals I found in the ARN books that had purchased a jeep, may have been representatives of organizations. We will never know the whole story I guess, it is a somewhat complicated story , how the vehicles were sold in each and every case , and the ARN books just give a little information, not enough information to fill in all of the gaps.

THE more remote locations did have CDC SALES WHERE anybody could buy a truck , places from where it wasn't economically worth it to transport the vehicles to the more populated areas.

[Douglas Greville]

Heck you are on a roll Mike. Well done.

First ad location is still a mechanic's workshop to this day!

2nd location is now incorporated into a Furniture store.

To the best of my knowledge, there were usually "major" dealers who then sold
to the little guys in towns etc who then sold to the public. The major dealer for Adelaide was "Chas F Smith",
he didn't just limit himself to jeeps however. Every armoured vehicle that came
to my area came directly from him. I have tracked the fate of every one of them,
all gone. Sigh.

Down your way, the Saxton and Heywood families purchased between them 700 tanks
and then on sold to the farmers. Years ago I visited one of the Heywoods and he told
me lots of stories about the tanks, getting them at auction, convoying them down
to Gippsland (every 2nd one was being towed) and so on.
He also had photos, no idea where they would be now.

Thanks.

Regards
Doug

[Mike K]

9

Originally Posted by Douglas Greville

Heck you are on a roll Mike. Well done.

First ad location is still a mechanic's workshop to this day!

2nd location is now incorporated into a Furniture store.

To the best of my knowledge, there were usually "major" dealers who then sold
to the little guys in towns etc who then sold to the public. The major dealer for Adelaide was "Chas F Smith",
he didn't just limit himself to jeeps however. Every armoured vehicle that came
to my area came directly from him. I have tracked the fate of every one of them,
all gone. Sigh.

Down your way, the Saxton and Heywood families purchased between them 700 tanks
and then on sold to the farmers. Years ago I visited one of the Heywoods and he told
me lots of stories about the tanks, getting them at auction, convoying them down
to Gippsland (every 2nd one was being towed) and so on.
He also had photos, no idea where they would be now.

Thanks.

Regards
Doug

A local , Les Christian , who died recently was involved with the driving of the surplus tanks to West Gippsland
A book was published on Les Christian's life, he gave a talk at the mens shed describing the epic effort of driving the tanks down from Northern Victoria.
https://www.pressreader.com/australi...81659666502514

Yes, one example of a specific make of surplus vehicles is Morris, some of which were purchased from the CDC by the respective dealer Lanes Motors, Lanes were the official Morris distributors in Vic . Lanes purchased some CS8 , PU and C8 A/T 4x4 trucks through CDC sales, Lanes then distributed these army trucks to their sub dealers in rural Victoria. My PU 8 cwt is a ex Lanes Motors truck, Lanes applied a cheap grey paint onto their CDC purchases , the grey is still visible on parts of my PU.

[Mike K]

More Broken hill stuff

[Douglas Greville]

Hello Mike

Interesting. I have never heard before you discovered the newspaper ads that there was anyone in Broken Hill selling ex-army vehicles.
The only source I was aware of was "Commonwealth Motors" in Crystal Street, Broken Hill who sold jeep parts but not actual vehicles.

Argent Motors was in business for decades, I think the business changed hands, changed name and changed location and may actually now be the Ford/Mitsubishi etc dealer.

Well done.

Regards
Doug

[Mike K]

Hi Doug

Yes the plot thickens as they say !

Looking through Trove I found various references relating to Carpenter & Co or 'Carpenter coy' which appears in the ARN books as a purchaser of quite a few jeeps through the CDC sales . Carpenter Co. was a Sydney based business with large interests in Pacific Island plantations - copra and so on, they also had a small airline that operated in PNG and QLD, I can only assume that it was this business that purchased the jeeps through CDC sales. It seems that Carpenter were operating in many areas of commerce in the South Pacific , in both retail and primary forms of trading, they also owned ships.

[Mike K]

Many adverts for Smith but nothing related to ex army stuff. I think Chas. Smith had some interest in Argent motors, or maybe owned Argent Motors outright.

[Douglas Greville]

Hello Mike

I had noticed the Carpenter Co notations too and wondered who they were.

As for Chas F Smith, I did not know he had an outlet under his own name
in Broken Hill.

Thanks again.
Doug

[Mike K]

In the AWM 126 there are a certain number of jeeps listed with the red pencil notation "Destroyed by CDC"

Maybe these were jeep wrecks that were not in a decent enough condition to sell ?

[Mike K]

Originally Posted by Douglas Greville

Hello Mike

I had noticed the Carpenter Co notations too and wondered who they were.

As for Chas F Smith, I did not know he had an outlet under his own name
in Broken Hill.

Thanks again.
Doug

Carpenter & Co. also purchased many Aust. No. 3 jeep trailers.

Another buyer of jeep trailers was Simmonds Co. .......can't find anything about that Company.

ALFSEA is another common red pencil notation as a recipient of vehicles - could be 'Allied Land Forces South East Asia' .. just a guess

WR Carpenter, who, through his business enterprises purchased many jeeps and trailers through CDC sales https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Randolph_Carpenter

Carpenter must have dispatched his buyers out in order to attend the many CDC sales held in places such as Rabaul. He wasn't a acredited jeep manufacturer or dealership nor a govt. Dept. Seems odd that so many jeeps were purchased by a private business that wasn't previously a car dealer.

[Douglas Greville]

Mike

Perhaps Mr Carpenter saw his chance to make a fortune and went for it.

Regards
Doug

[Mike K]

Originally Posted by Douglas Greville

Mike

Perhaps Mr Carpenter saw his chance to make a fortune and went for it.

Regards
Doug

Doug,

By the time he was buying surplus vehicles, Carpenter was well and truly a wealthy magnate. He must have got at least five percent of the jeeps on offer , probably more. If anybody has found a ex-Carpenter jeep, the jeep was likely to have seen service in the Islands , being a ship owner Carpenter did have the means to transport his purchases around, to places where he could sell the jeeps at a profit. Still in business today https://www.wrcpng.com/

One interesting entry: "estate HJ Williams" he purchased a Dodge WC56 Command car 123374

Another very active purchaser was 'AH Jolly' who I believe was a Darwin based buyer , this needs more research.

[Mike K]

130631 went to Carpenter Co.

https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/C56576

130227 to Carpenter Co.

https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/C276384

BBCAU or BBCAV ? received quite a few jeeps , I haven't worked out what organization that particular acronym was used for .

Edit: BBCAU = British Borneo Civil Admin Unit

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/a...rm=%22BBCAU%22

https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/C375603

https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/C375591

ALFSEA = Allied Land Forces South East Asia

[Mike K]

Carpenter advert from 1955. This is the WR Carpenter as seen in the AWM126 books,. This business purchased many many jeeps through the Commonwealth Disposals Commission sales.

https://nla.gov.au/nla.obj-319422533.../n195/mode/1up