Aussie DeSoto Ute

[Tony Smith]

Ahh, so you got that! That listing was up for only a couple of hours before disappearing. Didn't think it would last long at that price.

Well done!

Mike, not a P12, it's an "SP11 12cwt GS Van". Built as a Plymouth chassis, but badged as a De Soto, hence the "SP11". Be interested to see if the engine number is prefixed SP, or just P. Should be a Canadian 25" engine of 218ci.

If your concerned about the paint, Florite in Sydney have the right shade and gloss level for Australian "Light Stone N" (or Khaki Green J, if you prefer), after some great work by an enthusiastic researcher.

[Mike Cecil]

Tony,

On checking further, I had listed the De Sotos by the chassis number prefix which is invariably shown as P12, rather than the model number, which is shown as SP11. I have corrected the list accordingly - have found only 50 with an SP11 model designation in AMF service, and another 27 listed as De Soto and model P12. All are shown with chassis numbers prefixed with P12. So even if the De Sotos listed as model P12 are actually model SP11, it still only adds up to 77 vehicles.

The more common Plymouths, which are also listed with a P12 chassis prefix, are listed as Model P11 or Model P12.

Both the De Soto and Plymouth 12 cwt utes are listed with multi-digit engine numbers without a prefix.

All I have found thus far are in the 88XXX AMF range.

In any event, still an incredibly rare item.

Mike

[Tony Smith]

Originally Posted by Mike Cecil

Tony,

On checking further, I had listed the De Sotos by the chassis number prefix which is invariably shown as P12, rather than the model number, which is shown as SP11. I have corrected the list accordingly - have found only 50 with an SP11 model designation in AMF service, and another 27 listed as De Soto and model P12. All are shown with chassis numbers prefixed with P12. So even if the De Sotos listed as model P12 are actually model SP11, it still only adds up to 77 vehicles.

The more common Plymouths, which are also listed with a P12 chassis prefix, are listed as Model P11 or Model P12.

Both the De Soto and Plymouth 12 cwt utes are listed with multi-digit engine numbers without a prefix.

All I have found thus far are in the 88XXX AMF range.

In any event, still an incredibly rare item.

Mike

Mike, your columns from AWM 126 are mixed around.
The Engine numbers start with P12, the Chassis numbers are multi digit numbers without prefix.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

What a great Ute, congrats on buying it!

Not a lot to add, but here goes:

This Australian list via Bill Kreiner helps to explain the Year - Model - Marque relationship: http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...126#post283126

Mike Kelly had one of these DeSoto Utes, it had the Aust. army nomenclature "SP11 12 cwt GS van" stenciled on the cowl: http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...715#post283715

Also see this post about the “PlySoto”: http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...ad.php?t=12126

[DaveBuckle]

Thankyou Hanno, Tony, Mike - all most helpful - so I have to push wifey's horse float out of the shed then; tell her its for the greater good.
Of course Mike Kelly had one! - he has helped me so much with my Morris CS8.
That pic on his old post Hanno directed me to helped heaps too - am I correct in seeing that the whole windscreen assembly hinges up?
Shows me where all the shiny strips go (and also what headlight surrounds I need to find) - which is part of the puzzle to me: why have a hatch to spot the enemy and then shiny bits to attract him?!
Most staff cars I have seen pictured still have minimal bling.
Will get hunting for chassis and engine numbers to post - It has 3 big letters embossed in firewall: will confirm if TJR.

[Tony Smith]

Not saying Mike Kelly gets around, but he also posted some info on the G: https://forums.g503.com/viewtopic.php?t=101371

[Tony Smith]

Do you need this?

https://www.faxonautoliterature.com/...nual-Original-

[DaveBuckle]

Brilliant Tony (and Mike) I suspected it must of had running boards - the sills have been cut out a bit: due to rust am guessing - worst area is on floor at rear of doors.
Seller was telling me how they were a cut down sedan - seems that was a Ford thing, not DeSoto.
Of course I need the book - but shipping from America may have to wait till the minister has recovered from horse float incident.
I guess I'll be needing to know what other models I can possibly source running boards, headlight surrounds, steering drag link from ...

[Tony Smith]

Originally Posted by Tony Smith

Be interested to see if the engine number is prefixed SP, or just P.

Either P12 or SP11/12. I would say P12, but Mike Kelly earlier referred to an
SP engine, so we'll see.

[DaveBuckle]

Had a look around - found engine number and a couple on the body. Whereabouts should I be looking for chassis number? And what's that group of four letters stand for (DPGD?) is also on inlet manifold.
Body No.JPG TJR.JPG
Engine No.JPG Engine Others.JPG

[Mike K]

I remember the long block Canadian engine in these as having a bore of 3 and 3/8" and a 4 and 1/16" stroke. The T212 I believe used the same engine as did a few other Canadian sourced Chrysler light trucks . My 1946 T116 Dodge ute had the same 218ci engine.

Used to be one of those Plymouth army utes in the Bathurst NSW wreckers but that was so long ago I doubt either the wreckers or the ute still exist.

There was also a Dodge version of the 12cwt army ute but as I have written many times they are actually all 1941 Plymouths with some 'badge engineering' The trim and grills were altered in order to to make them look like a DeSoto or a Dodge which they are not.

Apart from myself, another VMVC member had two of these utes one of which was a DeSoto , they ended up in Sydney in the hands of Bob K. and I believe they later went to the Hughes collection .

The DPCD logo is seen on Chrysler parts , stuff like the bolt heads and other bits. At a guess it is: Dodge Plymouth Chrysler Desoto ?

The registered example I bought, the chap told me he towed a caravan up to Mildura for many years with the ute. He worked at CIG at Preston and he drove it to work well into the early 1980s - he said he bought it in 1956 at a Govt. surplus auction . It was finished in a red/black livery at one time, I would say likely used by the PMG after the war.

I think I still have the negatives, I took lots of pics of the Marong example which was a DeSoto. The original wiring looms were still intact , the glass instrument panel cover was unique to each version, the DeSoto had a fancy family crest , probably from the Spanish conquistador .

[Lynn Eades]

I agree with Mike about the DCPD.
A Chysler engine is prefixed by a C
A Dodge engine with a D
A Plymouth engine with a P
and a De Soto engine is prefixed by an S
A P11 engine and a P12 engine are both 1941 engines. Just early and late. Both are 3 1/8 bore by 4 3/8 stroke.

[DaveBuckle]

Thankyou all for your input: much appreciated! and yes indeed Mike - dash glass is a work of art: gauges should come up alright...
Dash.jpg

[Mike K]

Dave

The seating arrangement in these army utes is rather unusual, the passenger or drivers mate seat base is arranged so that the guy can stand up and observe and if he is brave enough , he could use the LAA Bren gallows mount .

The ute rear springs are 'beefed up' compared to the springs on the Plymouth sedans .

I put an article together for the USA Chrysler club magazine and the editor was amazed , he had never heard of a 1941 Plymouth sedan based utility .

There was a short window of opportunity for me to own all three variants of the military 12 cwt utes - the 1941 Ford , Chevrolet and the Plymouth plus I did have the Pontiac for a while but it was just all too much , where to store them and the cost of it all.

The engine blocks fitted in these utes are longer when compared to the contemporary T214 and other Chrysler vehicles with smaller bores i.e. up to 3 and 1/4" . So be careful when buying a head gasket. These long block engines also can have different stroke lengths - I think the common post-war 250ci engine has a bore of 3 and 7/16" . There was also a larger Chrysler s.v. 6 engine used in a particular brand of agricultural harvester . Was it 261 ci ? This might help you or maybe confuse you ! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_flathead_engine

Oh there are some of these utes listed in the ARN books so you can have a look for your engine nr. and maybe find its ARN and where it was disposed to.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Mike Kelly

The DPCD logo is seen on Chrysler parts , stuff like the bolt heads and other bits. At a guess it is: Dodge Plymouth Chrysler Desoto ?

Yes, DPCD stands for Dodge-Plymouth-Chrysler-DeSoto.

Though some say "it should be CDDP - Plymouth being el cheapo should be last"

[Hanno Spoelstra]

T.J.R. stands for T.J. Richards, apparently of Keswick, Adelaide. T.J.R. built the cab and rear deck.

Source: http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...779#post106779

Originally Posted by DaveBuckle

Had a look around - found engine number and a couple on the body. Whereabouts should I be looking for chassis number? And what's that group of four letters stand for (DPGD?) is also on inlet manifold.

TJR.JPG