Armour Dreams

[Jonathan Moore]

I was going to make a sort of hub cap that bolted on but in the end I decided to roll a cone and weld it on to the flange.

[Jonathan Moore]

And after a bit of welding.
Then of course there was quite a bit of grinding but I am quite happy with the end result.
The next job is to make the cover to go over the hole in the middle.



That' all for now.

Jon

[David Dunlop]

Thanks for the great update, Jon.

Nice work, as always!

David

[Petr Brezina]

Excellent craftsmanship!

[Jonathan Moore]

Thanks both but I am just doing what I enjoy.

Both sprocket flanges are finished as are the two cover caps and hopefully this weekend I will find some time to test fit them onto the final drives.
Then apart from the three vision port covers, associated fittings and the dummy gearbox cover, in theory I have finished making parts and the whole thing needs stripping and painting. That of course ignores the elephant in the room, the track links. In a moment of shear madness I emailed every iron foundry in the UK, attached the wartime specification for Malleable cast iron track links and requested a cost, some luck. Most didn't even bother to respond, some were down right rude and some where clearly taking the P. However one did provide me with a figure of £30,000. That was before the current increase in electricity and material costs, so it's back to fabricating them, oh joy.

[Jonathan Moore]

I found time this evening to have a test fit of one of the sprockets.

[Jonathan Moore]

The only item that I am struggling to find information on or even find detailed pictures of, is this leather MG pouch.
And it is really irritating me. In the later vehicles they used a metal box and the normal infantry MG teams used a small leather case but in early tanks the pictures always show the same case. The nearest that I can find is a post war Czech version, the dimensions appear to be correct by scaling, but the Czech one is made of canvas and has a handle. In the end it may have to do, that is until in the dark and distant future I find a real one to copy.
If perchance anyone out there has any more detailed information please let me know.

[Jonathan Moore]

Only me, I just thought that I would give a quick update. Life's just been too busy since my last update with very little Panzer time involved but lately things have quietened down so I have finished a few little jobs before I started to strip it all down for spraying. I had decided to make a few changes to make life easier in the future, such as moving the ecu and fuses to a more accessible location, changing all the cooper tubing to steel just a name a two but there are more which I will do as I reassemble the whole thing.

One of the two final components that needed making was the small hatch on the rear engine deck.

[Jonathan Moore]

Then the final fabrication, the gearbox cover.
Of course, in the original tank there is a gearbox to fill this space but in my recreation there's just a hole,

[Jonathan Moore]

so I wanted something that recreates the look and covers the drive shaft and covers all the bits below.
It all easily breaks down into smaller pieces so that if needed it can be removed from the interior of the tank.

[Jonathan Moore]

I have been keeping my eyes open for all the little detail parts for the tank and found an oil can and grease gun, it took ages but the bay turned up trumps again.

[Jonathan Moore]

Well I have stripped the hull of all the fittings, which was a very unenjoyable job but it means that the project is entering it's final stages, albeit the end is still a long way off. I dragged the hull out and washed it inside and out and when it had dried off hoovered it out ready for painting.

[Jonathan Moore]

All nicely painted, in day light it's not actually gray but a green-grey RAL 7003 . I had always assumed that the internal areas in German tanks that weren't painted in RAL1001 Ivory, were just left as red oxide until I found some good pictures of the inside of the Tank Museums PZ2. The exact colour, from the pictures, is hard to establish but I found another taken in day light and the colour was definitely a green grey rather than grey. There seemed to be two choices, ( sorry my wife has corrected my poor grammar that should be options) RAL 7003 or RAL 7009 which looks grey as opposed to green-grey, so I decided on the 7003 which according to the book Real colours of WW2 was used by German industry for painting machinery components or the luftwaffe for painting aircraft interiors and I like it.



Sad I know but that's me.

[Jonathan Moore]

As I look at all the parts in storage and realise that they all have to be finished sprayed I find it horrifying and yet I have a plan.

Progress is being made although it seems to be very slow. I am spraying and to create enough room to spray inside my workshop, I had to extend it, hence the slow pace. I am trying to only spray the parts that I intend to assemble next, so that I don't have to store loads of finished items and risk damaging them and I can create some extra room. The road wheels and the return rollers were a right pain to mask up, my son said that I should have just sprayed them all grey and let the tracks rub the paint off but I couldn't bring myself to do it as it seems lazy.
It's quite satisfying assembling it in it's finished state but I had noticed some areas that I thought needed alteration or lubrication points adding when I stripped it down, so I am making those alterations as I go along. Maybe I am being too anal but that's me.

That's it so far, all up to date.


That's all for now.

Jon

[ChaseR83]

Your build is simply amazing.

I've read through the pages numerous times and I'm still in awe every time I do. I too have armor dreams that are much larger than my pocketbook... and your build is proof it can be done.

I do have a question for you though, what are you using for documentation? I've started researching a few early war tanks with dreams of building a replica... but info on German tanks always seems scarce. Even Hilary Doyle's Panzer Tracts have become difficult to find.

[Tim Bell]

Originally Posted by ChaseR83

Your build is simply amazing.

I've read through the pages numerous times and I'm still in awe every time I do. I too have armor dreams that are much larger than my pocketbook... and your build is proof it can be done.

I do have a question for you though, what are you using for documentation? I've started researching a few early war tanks with dreams of building a replica... but info on German tanks always seems scarce. Even Hilary Doyle's Panzer Tracts have become difficult to find.

Research wise, no doubt publications such as these are handy... though sadly I dont have any for the PZ2.







Tim

[Jonathan Moore]

Tim,
I have to ask where did you get those, are they in reprint? I would love a copy of both of those.

Chase,

I have found getting any specific documentation, apart from published books, impossible but I suppose someone somewhere will have it and It will probably come to light after I have finished. I have bought every book that I can find on the Panzer II but most of them hold very little reliable information and a lot of them can be very misleading. The best books that I have found are the "Panzer tract" books and the "AFV super detail photo books", there is also an excellent cd Called German Tank Interiors. The hardest part is finding pictures of tanks that haven't been restored, some restorations are very suspect regarding their accuracy, especially the interiors.
I have contacted the Tank Museum and they kindly forwarded me some interior pictures but most of these are available in the AFV super detail book, Other than that they didn't appear to have much.
My wife finds me staring at pictures trying to work out how, why and where but I am always amazed at how much detail a good clear photo contains, most of the time it just needs to be interpreted correctly.

Dimension wise, the best bet is to find one to measure and failing that, find the best pictures and scale them but as I have found check, check and check again.

I have spent many hours trawling the internet, most of which has been wasted time but some times I have found some thing of interest.

I hope that helps.

Jon

[ChaseR83]

Originally Posted by Jonathan Moore

Tim,
I have to ask where did you get those, are they in reprint? I would love a copy of both of those.

I too, would love to know if reprints are available. The Panzer III is on my short list of tanks to research.

[ChaseR83]

Originally Posted by Jonathan Moore

Chase,

I have found getting any specific documentation, apart from published books, impossible but I suppose someone somewhere will have it and It will probably come to light after I have finished. I have bought every book that I can find on the Panzer II but most of them hold very little reliable information and a lot of them can be very misleading. The best books that I have found are the "Panzer tract" books and the "AFV super detail photo books", there is also an excellent cd Called German Tank Interiors. The hardest part is finding pictures of tanks that haven't been restored, some restorations are very suspect regarding their accuracy, especially the interiors.
I have contacted the Tank Museum and they kindly forwarded me some interior pictures but most of these are available in the AFV super detail book, Other than that they didn't appear to have much.
My wife finds me staring at pictures trying to work out how, why and where but I am always amazed at how much detail a good clear photo contains, most of the time it just needs to be interpreted correctly.

Dimension wise, the best bet is to find one to measure and failing that, find the best pictures and scale them but as I have found check, check and check again.

I have spent many hours trawling the internet, most of which has been wasted time but some times I have found some thing of interest.

I hope that helps.

Jon

Jon,

Thank you for the reply. I have the added difficulty of being in the US.... which often means "in-person" research is very difficult on tanks with few survivors. I'd love to visit Bovington or Samur.... but it would be quite an undertaking... and I don't think they would allow some nutter from across the pond crawl around inside their exhibits to take pictures.

I've gathered some excellent info on several British and French tanks... but for now all is far too incomplete to start a replica attempt.

If you are still looking for documentation for your build... I have a book that lists the locations of surviving German manuals by archive. I can forward the locations for various Panzer 2 manuals... but they appear to be incomplete as German manuals are divided up by hull, superstructure and turret, etc.

[Tim Bell]

Originally Posted by Jonathan Moore

Tim,
I have to ask where did you get those, are they in reprint? I would love a copy of both of those.

Jon

Found them with an online book dealer in the USA some time ago... very interesting... ironic that they have far more detail than the British manuals produced for the Firefly.

I did a limited reprint of the Pz3 books, but have not bothered with the Pz4 ones because one of the recipients of the Pz3 books constantly hassled me about some reprint "errors" for over 6 months afterwards.

The print company got some pages in the wrong order when binding and had to slightly photo-reduce pages to fit A4 (original is letter size).

If you are happy to accept these slight differences, I can consider getting more reprinted. No doubt we can the page order error fixed, but I can do nothing for the photo-reduction challenge.

Are you interested in just the Pz3 ones, or Pz3 and Pz4.

If anyone else is interested in any, please let me know - I will do another print run for MLU members.

Let me know

Tim

[Jonathan Moore]

Tim,
I would definitely be interested in both, errors or not.


Chase,

I have never had any bother taking pictures at Bovington as long as you don't climb on the tanks and as always it polite just to ask first.

If you could forward me the location of any PZ2 archived documentation I would really appreciate it

Regards,

Jonathan

[ChaseR83]

Originally Posted by Jonathan Moore

Tim,

If you could forward me the location of any PZ2 archived documentation I would really appreciate it
Regards,

Jonathan

PM Sent

[ChaseR83]

Originally Posted by Tim Bell

If anyone else is interested in any, please let me know - I will do another print run for MLU members.

Tim

I would be willing to purchase copies of both the Panzer III and IV manuals.

PM sent

[Jonathan Moore]

Evening All,

Today I achieved what to me seems a major mile stone, the assembly of the running gear onto the chassis and everything lines up, thank goodness.

That's all folks.

Jon

[Ganmain Tony]

Wonderful!!

Simply... Wonderful!!

Post 85 shows a picture of the tracks on a Panzer 2. So at least something to copy does exist.

Are any of the museums likely able to help you out Jon? Are there any collectors who may lean towards being benevolent and at least loan you a few 'Cleats'.???

Perhaps there is something that matches on a Komatsu??

Really hope a simple, cheap solution presents itself Jon.

[Dave Newcomb]

This is called a log skidder with 5 boggy wheels, tracks and lots of them mfgr'd
Looks similar. chance that some equipment tracks might fit-wordwide search? Dave in Oregon USA

[Jonathan Moore]

Thanks Tony and Dave,

I have spent many hours searching on the net for a set of suitable commercially available tracks but thus far no luck. The cost of having a set cast was around £30,000 once everything had been taken into account, I have no idea what that would be in the current climate but it will be well above my budget. To be honest I haven't tried asking for help and wouldn't, I have seen too many people start projects hoping that someone else will fund it and that isn't me. Saying that, if someone were to offer me a set I wouldn't refuse. I will find a solution in the fullness of time and if that means that it only drives from the workshop to it's new home on the set that I intend to fabricate, then so be it. Building it to completion will give me enough satisfaction.

Jon

[ChaseR83]

Jon,

Have you considered casting your own track links? I've just started researching "hobbyist" casting, but I have read of several people successfully building home furnaces hot enough to melt iron and steel.... including a blast furnace that ran on waste oil.

I'm sure somewhere out there somebody has a couple of spare Pz.II track links for sale that would give you a basis for building a form. I see lots of Pz.III and IV track links for sale on eBay from the eastern European "bog hunters"... usually for what is, IMO, outrageous prices. I have contact info for a couple of legit armor dealers in western Europe that I can dig up you like.

The "track issue" haunts me as well as I research various tanks....

[James P]

Maybe worthwhile to see what track that looks suitable, workable and cost effective can be sourced from Ukraine, lots to be found there the past 251 days.

[Jonathan Moore]

Evening all,



Time for another quick update me thinks. This spraying is a chore but the pile of parts is slowly decreasing as they get assembled on to the hull. Today we managed to get the steering box in place and bolted in, which meant that the final drives could also be bolted on.
The only other job that I achieved, was fitting the bump stops on.
That's all until next time.

Jon