1940 Chevrolet 12-cwt Ute

[Mike Cecil]

Lang,

Your engine number: R118522, a 1940 Chev utility.

AIF and AMF 'Vans, 12 Cwt, GS (Aust)', Chevrolets are almost invariably listed with 7 digits viz: 'R199xxxx' or 'R278xxxx' or 'R298xxxx' engine numbers.

Where a chassis number is listed, it is in the form of an assembly plant prefix followed by what appears to be the year, then the number: eg, M39-2815 or M40-1332, where M is Melbourne.

Hope you locate the plate from your ute: might be the key to its military identity.

Mike

[Lang]

Thanks to the two M's for your help.

Mike K I know Michael Ferguson in that video well. That is where I got my new floor shift 3 speed yesterday - I have a rebuilt? 3 speed column shift for sale.

This is a wonderful site to put in your index. http://home.znet.com/c1937/RPM.htm

As you know I am not too precious about the number of rivets and more than happy to have a "may be, may be not, tribute" vehicle - it only becomes 'fake' if claims are made against opposing evidence.

Missing evidence either way has no value in law and the "likely" optimism of the owner holds equal status with the "unlikely" claims of others.

I would hazard a guess that the great majority of restored military vehicles (particularly jeeps) would fail miserably in an academic provenance investigation. All the many gratuitously marked Military Police vehicles tell us is their owners have never been in the army (unless they were actually Military Policemen).

The best most of us can do is save a vehicle of a type clearly used by the military and use words like "presume" or "possibly" while ignoring the cries of experts who require proof while offering no opposing proof themselves.

Marking an unknown vehicle with definite originality claims is falsifying history but marked to "represent XYZ" is just fine to my mind.

The main thing is the keep them rolling.

Lang

[Mike K]

Originally Posted by Mike Cecil

Lang,

Your engine number: R118522, a 1940 Chev utility.

AIF and AMF 'Vans, 12 Cwt, GS (Aust)', Chevrolets are almost invariably listed with 7 digits viz: 'R199xxxx' or 'R278xxxx' or 'R298xxxx' engine numbers.

Where a chassis number is listed, it is in the form of an assembly plant prefix followed by what appears to be the year, then the number: eg, M39-2815 or M40-1332, where M is Melbourne.

Hope you locate the plate from your ute: might be the key to its military identity.

Mike

I noticed the six digit engine number as well.

The utube video claims that 6000 of the 1940 model coupe utes were assembled which seems to be a rather high number to me: the Woodville production records don't indicate that such a high number of these ute bodies were manufactured for 1940 but these bodies may also have been pressed in the Fishermen's Bend plant.

[Lang]

Yes Mike

I looked at a Chev site which I can not relocate and it showed clearly the Canadian R (right drive) engines changed to longer numbers in 1941

I have absolutely no doubt the engine in my ute is 1940 verified by both casting number and engine number from various reference sites. In all probability it is the original engine for this vehicle but who knows?

Have a look at this

https://www.uniquecarsandparts.com.a...tion_1940_1943

This is from Woodville, were there any other body construction sites or did they all use Woodville bodies? Interesting the large number of war-irrelevant makes that they kept punching out through 1941.

Interesting thing is 2,510 what I presume is the civilian style Coupe Ute built to 1943 but only 98 AMF Coupe Ute. I have not got the figures for 44 and 45 but even if civilian type production ceased it would appear there were vastly more civilian style than military.

[Mike Cecil]

Lang,

If the engine number lengthened in 1941, how come the vehicles listed in AMW126 were sent overseas with the 1st AIF contingent in early 1940 with seven digit engine numbers? Example, AIF-V-33 to AIF-V-62, all with R199xxxx numbers. And I suspect these are 1939 model GS utilities, too, as the same engine number sequence listed in the AMF registrations have 'M-39-" chassis numbers listed.

Something doesn't add up between these sources. Very puzzling.

Mike

[Lang]

Mike

I too noticed 1939 long numbers.

Production lines did not start and finish on the first of January. Entire shiploads of engines from the previous year would take many months to reach port and work their way through storage and production into a finished motor vehicle. Almost the entire vehicle up until February or March might be constructed from materials born in the previous year. I think they should be talking about "Model Year" not "Production Year". Look at the situation now where manufacturers start advertising the new 2024 model in July or August of 2023!

I think the GM (and probably Ford and Chrysler) system was so convoluted that nobody can say truly what numbers were what.

1. Canadian built engines for multi-international use eg UK.
2. Canadian built engines for specifically Australian use.
3. Canadian engines with no numbers as replacements or local foreign numbering. (All replacement engines had no numbers in Australia until 60's eg GEM and REPCO Holden engines stamped by the mechanic to match existing paperwork)
4, US built engines supplied to gap fill Canadian shipments or vice-versa.
5. Possibly thousands of engines in various long and short term storage being picked by the fork-lift drivers months out of sequence, Many people say engine numbers are unreliable and the date should be the body/chassis line production number stamped during assembly.
plus numerous other combinations.

Lang

[Lang]

And This:

1940 passenger car engines that were assembled in Flint carried 7 digit numbers. Tonawanda assembled engines used a 6 digit numbering system preceeded by the letter B.

The range of serial numbers for a 1940 engine are as follows:

Flint: 2697268 - 3665902

Tonawanda: B105462 - B221935

1940 engines bearing the prefix BR or just a single R were destined for right drive country production.



Canadian production figures are within this group. Obviously duplicating US numbers but hopefully differentiated by vehicle application prefix.
Walkerville, Ontario aka Windsor: 1997877 … 3556862 or 3557935

My engine falls in the Tonawanda 6 digit group for 1940??

[Mike K]

Originally Posted by Lang

And This:

1940 passenger car engines that were assembled in Flint carried 7 digit numbers. Tonawanda assembled engines used a 6 digit numbering system preceeded by the letter B. If you happen to have the B preceeding the six digit number given your engine was assembled in the month of February 1940.

The range of serial numbers for a 1940 engine are as follows:

Flint: 2697268 - 3665902

Tonawanda: B105462 - B221935

1940 engines bearing the prefix BR or just a single R were destined for right drive country production.


Walkerville, Ontario aka Windsor: 1997877 … 3556862 or 3557935

My engine falls in the Tonawanda 6 digit group for 1940??

Your ute probably should have a Canadian built engine, in the contemporary adverts they made a big deal out of this: The Chevrolet is a 'British Empire Product'

Both of the engines in my Jan. dated utes which are 100% the correct engines , have a CR prefix. The two body tag serial numbers are only two digits apart.

re: the body plants . I think Woodville stamped the higher volume models and Fishermen's Bend stamped the lower volume more specialized types.

From David Hayward's old site:

MIKE KELLY’S 15CWT. HOLDEN-BODIED UTE:
BUILT JANUARY 1940?
ENGINE CR2,003,874
ARMY BOOK SAYS FIRST 515 SERIES 13 UTES HAD 3-SPEED GEARBOXES AND THEN THE REST HAD 4-SPEED GEARBOXES.
THIS ONE HAS A 3-SPEED GEARBOX
Note “CR” PREFIX: “C” FOR LIGHT COMMERCIAL CHEVROLET 216 AND “CR” FOR RHD LIGHT COMMERCIAL CHEVROLET 216 MOTORS

[Mike K]

Originally Posted by Mike Cecil

Lang,

And I suspect these are 1939 model GS utilities, too, as the same engine number sequence listed in the AMF registrations have 'M-39-" chassis numbers listed.

Something doesn't add up between these sources. Very puzzling.

Mike

Yes the earlier 12cwt's listed would be 1939 models. The AIF had some 1939 models.