Canadian Dodge APT with Dual PTO

[Jürgen Dose]

Hello everybody,

I’m overhauling the PTO (and some more things) of my APT. Putting it together I discovered a problem: Usually the PTO of the Canadian Dodge and the US-Dodge are the same.

But it looks as if I have a different (may be younger) one. Because at the rear I have an end plate with a hole for the drive shaft (dual PTO) and an oil seal with a different outer diameter to that one at the front end (watch the picture with the parts - you can see that).

Of course a bought a PTO gasket and seal set. Following the explanation of “Dodge Vintage Power Wagon” it’s a set for the 1 Ton Flat Fender Power Wagon 4x4 Civilian & Export. But the two oil seals for the drive shaft are similar, so I can’t use one of them for my end plate.

I'm looking for that smaller oil seal. And I made a measurement: The inner diameter of the seal (and also of course the diameter of the mainshaft) is 25mm (like at the front end) and the outer diameter is 39,6mm (1,56")

Does anybody knows that problem or knows which PTO it is?

Thanks in advance for your support.

Attached pictures:
01 PTO still installed
02 PTO clos up
03 end plate with hole for the drive shaft
04 comparison
05 oil seal outer diameter too big

[Lynn Eades]

Jurgen, Based on your O.D. measurement, the outer diameter is imperial 1 9/16 inch. probably the shaft is 25.4mm or 1.000 inch. Go and buy an imperial seal. If I remember correctly these PTOs are dimensioned in imperial (bearings and seals)
I am guessing that the wartime PTO looks the same except there is no shaft out of the rear?

[Jürgen Dose]

Hello Lynn, thanks for your reply, I agree that it is imperial, but that dimension seems to be hard to find. I have already looked at about a dozen lists. According your question: Yes, it's the same like the war time PTO. While posting my problem I have had the hope that somebody could say for which truck or use it was built. A second winch in the rear? Or something with a side drive? Here in Europe nobody knows.

[rob love]

Seal is, I believe, an SKF 9894. Lots of them on ebay and even amazon.

Sorry, can't help on the PTO application.

[Bob Carriere]

The first issue if the tranny....... the Canadian 4 speed tranny was different than the USA M37 tranny and a specific PTO was needed to match the PTO.... Your PTO seems to bolt on so the inside gear must mesh properly.

From my experience it is better to shop for a seal or bearing by size.... whether ...metric or imperial ..... what you go by is the ID...inside diameter and OD outside diameter.....than the thickness ...... if all they can search for is by truck model leave as fast as you can and find a bearing and seal shop..... they will search by size not by brand or truck model....... and if truly honest will tell you if he has to order them and from which city...... some are faster to get for more money or a few days longer for less $$$.... for example the CMP front large brake drum seals are also commonly used on modern commercial bread making machines.

Good luck.....

[Lynn Eades]

Jurgen, Was there a need in the APT for a pto. to the rear? If not, then I suspect : 1, Your pto. has had a post war model shaft fitted? Or, 2. that someone has modified the rear cover and made up a shaft to suit their specific needs. If your shaft is a factory item, I would like to know, from what?

Bob, I believe the APT ran the same gearbox as the U.S. WC52 to WC57 (3/4 ton Dodges of 42 to 45) These all ran the MU2 Braden winches. The earlier half ton Dodges only had one pto port in the gearbox, which was on the opposite side to the one used in the later 42 to 45 trucks. This also meant that the 1/2 ton Dodge winch was the reverse layout and was just an MU model winch. I have little knowledge of the M37, but they were a different (synchros and ratio) box, as you say, requiring a different pto unit which I am totally unfamiliar with.

[David Herbert]

I suspect that this PTO is a later development to give a more universal application. Not so that two drives were needed on a particular vehicle. I totally agree with Bob's comments in post #5 above.

David

[Jürgen Dose]

Hello everybody,

many thanks for your hints and ideas. The problem is solved with a metric seal with the size 25 /40 / 7 It fits perfect – on the shaft as well as in the bore.

#rob love: Thanks for the SKF idea: But with 25,4 mm it would have been too much space between the rubber and the shaft.

# Bob and Lynn: I have overhauled the whole gear box including the PTO. And while mounting the PTO I took spotting paste and everything fits perfect.

The APT has definitely the same gear box as the US-Dodge, I have checked that with the CC-number. Original the PTO is only for the MU2 Braden winch. At the Canadian Dodge is nothing in the rear which could be driven by a PTO. As written in my first post there was 1 Ton Flat Fender Power Wagon 4x4 Civilian & Export which has had a PTO with the shaft working in both directions. But the seals at the front and rear are similar. And until today I don’t know for what the rear option was used.

Anyway, an interesting discussion – thanks for your infos and ideas.

[Gordons]

I have seen these double PTO's on some of the pipe line full cab dodges from the CANOL Pipe line, powerwagons with flat decks and a PTO winch mounted directly rear of the cab, I assumed theses trucks where used for lifting pipe, as they had gin poles mounted at the rear of the decks, I have also seen a second dodge full cab truck with full metal cargo box similar to the WC box with winch mounted and recessed in the floor, with a metal cover or access door over top, this truck was for set up for installing telephone poles.