M38CDN Ambulance

[David Dunlop]

JD

Always take the time to carefully check every logical place on your vehicle for military markings of any kind and document them for exact locations. sizes and colours. More important, never assume all markings found are a one shot representation of what the vehicle did and where it served.

The odds are your M38CDN was never an ambulance in in RCHA Service.

Two of these former ambulance M38CDN's have showed up in Winnipeg over the years. One was fully restored back to ambulance and the other was not, it just became another M38CDN.

I have no idea how long an active service life this style of M38CDN ambulance actually had. It would not surprise me at all if it was a relatively short life, with all of them ultimately getting reverted back to standard configuration, for which there was likely much more demand in the Canadian Army.

If you want to convert it to its ambulance configuration, you will need to find three key pieces, in addition to removing several that have been put back and added subsequent to its ambulance service time. The rear seat and tailgate must go, along with any of the radio equipment bits. The biggest challenge will be finding the stretcher floor plate assembly that drops down over the rear floor and extends through the tailgate opening almost two feet.

Then you will need to find the special ambulance top bow assembly that fits into the standard bow sockets on the rear sides of the body, but had an additional rear foldout bar that ends up sitting above the rear end of the stretcher plate. Finally, you will have to find the canvas ambulance cover assembly.

There was an ambulance front hood spare wheel bracket here in town a few years ago but it might have been thrown out by now. I can make inquiries if you are interested.

The vehicle is a real attention grabber when its complete and on the road.


David

[David Herbert]

To remove the flaking paint, my first plan would be a pressure washer. A domestic grade one might not do it but a proper commercial grade one would make a big difference and spread green paint flakes all over your yard and you.

Good luck with this project, it is in remarkable condition.

David

[donjunior]

Thank you for the comments, a pressure washer will be the first step in the restoration. I agree, it should take off a lot of the flaking paint, perhaps even revealing some additional markings. A friend forwarded me a copy of the Manual of Vehicle and Aircraft Painting and Markings and the red over blue suggests RHQ. I thought ambulance until one of you learned individuals pointed out that it wouldn't have a tailgate and rear seat. It also does not appear to have ever had any radio kit installed (the C42 mount sitting on the rear seat in one of the pictures is a false flag). Both of the rear fender wells are pristine, not only do they not have any additional holes, they bear no dents or signs of wear. It's possible that it was refitted at some point, however, the tailgate and rear seat look to be original to the vehicle (the various layers of paint match). Maybe RHQ makes sense and would explain the overall excellent condition of the sheet metal?

[Ed Storey]

There appears to be some confusion over artillery vehicle markings. The red over blue marking found on the M38CDN windshield is the arm of service sign and it signifies an artillery unit. The white number in the middle of this sign would have been assigned to the specific artillery unit based on the brigade or division order of battle and the number did not usually relate specifically to the unit it represented, so 15 would not necessarily have been assigned to 15th Fd RCA in Vancouver.

The red over blue RHQ marking you have talked about is the tactical sign and was part of a system employed by artillery units to identify the various vehicles and guns within an artillery unit. These smaller tactical signs would have been painted on the sides of vehicles, such as the doors.

If your intent is to replicate a 15 RCA vehicle and its markings from the 1960s era, then your best bet is to research a photograph of a vehicle from that particular unit and replicate it rather than trying to fabricate ficticious markings.

[rob love]

There are 2 or 3 of the main ambulance stretcher platforms at our local scrapyard in mb if you decided to install the kit.

[David Dunlop]

Hi Don.

It is unfortunate we have not yet discovered documentation stating when the 1952 M38CDN series of jeeps were converted to ambulance pattern, and how long that lasted before they were all restored to standard configuration.

My gut tells me it was probably a short lived experiment, but then I drink a lot of wine on weekends.

Assuming the ambulance idea ran its course early in the M38CDN service life, and they were all restored to standard, it makes sense all subsequent paint jobs applied to the vehicle would easily blend in a replaced rear seat and tailgate to the point they looked as it they had always been there.

You should check to see of the CFR Number for the jeep was ever stamped onto the drivers side front frame, just aft of the bumper assembly and see if it matches what appears painted on the sides. Post what you find and also the serial number from the data plates if they have survived on the dash. Somebody here might know something.

Also look for changes in the font style of the CFR Number on the sides. Original and first few years of service had Roman style font with lots of curves. Then a slightly smaller Gothic font was adopted with all straight edged numbers, and that ran right up until disposal of the fleet. Also check the flat sides of the hood closely for signs of the CFR Number having been applied there. It was not always on the sides.


David

[Ed Storey]

The M38CDN Ambulance was in service until at least 1970, as one is in this photograph of Canadian vehicles being loaded onto HMCS Bonaventure.

BV70-50 copy.jpg

[rob love]

Originally Posted by David Dunlop

JD
The odds are your M38CDN was never an ambulance in in RCHA Service.
David

There is actually a very good chance that the ambulance would have been out of an artillery unit. According to the 1960 War Establishments manual, there were a total of 5 in each field regiment. Every Battery had one, as well as the headquarters having 2.

I recall seeing the ambulance version of the Iltis at the local militia armoury. It would almost seem like the use of the light amb in the artillery battery (militia) perpetuated.

[donjunior]

Thanks to everyone who took the time to post their thoughts regarding my M38.

Based on your comments and photos, I believe this M38 was likely an ambulance at one point. The hood-mounted spare tire and relocated jerry can point in that direction. It would also appear from the manual cover posted by Wayne H. that the tailgate remained in place during the ambulance conversion. The tailgate looks original to the jeep and someone took the time to put bolts back into the jerry can and spare tire mount holes (the paint on these bolts matches the rest of the jeep). Several additional holes were drilled into the tailgate both top and bottom (part of the ambulance conversion?). This jeep also had a hot water heater kit.

Finally, the overall condition of the jeep is quite remarkable. It has two small dents, one crease you can see on the left rear corner and another dent on the lower left front fender. The floors are not wavey and the rear fender wells are pristine (no dents nor holes). There is also no significant rust other than surface rust where the paint was worn away. From my experience, ambulances had a pretty easy life and were normally stored indoors.

I brought her into the shop last weekend for a mechanical evaluation. In addition, I will start removing some of the layers of paint, hopefully getting down to the original semi-gloss OD. I don't think I will try to source all of the ambulance kit (good canvas would likely be impossible to find), but I will keep the spare on the hood and the jerry can on the right rear corner.

I will post updates...

[rob love]

The 4 digits on the bumperette are the census code. I have the list of codes at home and that would verify it as an ambulance, but all the existing holes pretty much already make that a certainty.

[donjunior]

Originally Posted by rob love

The 4 digits on the bumperette are the census code. I have the list of codes at home and that would verify it as an ambulance, but all the existing holes pretty much already make that a certainty.

It would be pretty neat to have that confirmation, thanks Rob.

[Ed Storey]

Not to get too deep into the weeds with respect to Canadian post-SWW vehicle markings but from my list, the ECC for a M38CDN with Stretcher Rack Kit was 121106 and 121107 for a M38CDN w/winch. So 2236 on the bumperette would be ECC 122236 which falls within the ¾ ton M series of vehicles and could indicate a replacement from another vehicle.

I think I am seeing black behind the 2236 which leads me to believe that this is actually a pair of arm of service markings painted on top of each other. According to the 1963 list of AoS codes, a white 22 on a black square designates a RCAMC Feild Ambulance which fits for an Ambulance Jeep.
If the background is a dark blue, then from the 1949 list of AoC codes, then 36 designated an Engineer Regiment.

It also appears to me that the other bumperette has the remains of a yellow maple leaf on red square formation sign of the 1st Canadian Division.

There is always a bit of vehicle archeology involved when trying to decypher the markings provided they are athentic and have not been altered by previous owners.

[rob love]

Ed, you are talking about the newer census code, later revised to equipment configuration code. The correlation between the old code and the new configuration code isn't that direct.
I just checked my manual from 1960 and can confirm that the old census code for the 1/4 ton ambulance (both M38 and M38A1) is 2236. There are also 2238 (121106) and 2239 (121107) which have a different stock code for the kit, and the 2239 is with an interim radio adapter kit. The ECC for the old census 2236 amb is 121103.