Modified 25-pounder guns

[centurion]

A British version of the Australian baby 25 pdr was developed. Its main difference was that it could take the super charge (recoil system improved) This was the Mark IV gun. It had the same carriage as the Austraian baby Apparently only a very small number were made as the demand for Jungle Warfare capability had ceased by the time it was ready (late 1945).

Just for clarification - Confusion is often caused by the British practice of refering to an artillery piece as an equipment that is made up of a carriage and a tube (gun) and then giving both elements of the equipment mark numbers that can cause apparent duplications - I think gunners do it on purpose
There were it seems two types of narrow wheelbase 25 pdr equipments. Those with the Mark II carriage which was an Indian design with a special small diameter firing platform (type 22) to match, and those with the Mark III carriage which was originally a Canadian design change, using the type 22 platform but with the hinged trail and sights modified for high angle firing. Both narrow gauge guns were produced for the same reasons - the Mark I carriage 25pdr could not be got through a DC3 (C47, Dakota) side door unless it was dismantled and it could not be towed on jungle or mountain tracks wide enough to take a jeep but two narrow for a normal towing vehicle. Both carriages could be fitted with any of the following tubes (guns) Mark II, C Mark II, Mark III, C Mark III. In theory I suppose the various post war tubes could also have been fitted bur these carriages were not in use then.

There thats my weekly dose of pedantry

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by centurion

There were it seems two types of narrow wheelbase 25 pdr equipments. Those with the Mark II carriage which was an Indian design with a special small diameter firing platform (type 22) to match, and those with the Mark III carriage which was originally a Canadian design change, using the type 22 platform but with the hinged trail and sights modified for high angle firing. Both narrow gauge guns were produced for the same reasons - the Mark I carriage 25pdr could not be got through a DC3 (C47, Dakota) side door unless it was dismantled and it could not be towed on jungle or mountain tracks wide enough to take a jeep but two narrow for a normal towing vehicle. Both carriages could be fitted with any of the following tubes (guns) Mark II, C Mark II, Mark III, C Mark III. In theory I suppose the various post war tubes could also have been fitted bur these carriages were not in use then.

Cross-reference to Indian Pattern FAT thread: here's a 25-pdr on Mk.2 carriage in use by the 15th Indian Corps at Elephant Point, south of Rangoon, May 1945:

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Photo No.: SE 3914
Photographer: Wackett F (Sgt)
No 9 Army Film & Photographic Unit
Title: THE BRITISH ARMY IN BURMA 1945
Collection No.: 4700-64
Description: Unloading a landing craft of troops and vehicles of the 15th Indian Corps at Elephant Point,
south of Rangoon at the beginning of operation 'Dracula', 2 May 1945.
Date: 2 May 1945

[rnixartillery]

This picture would suggest that the shields on the MkII and MkIII differ.

Rob...................rnixartillery.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by rnixartillery

This picture would suggest that the shields on the MkII and MkIII differ.

Picture caption states: "showing Mark 1 carriage on the left and a Mark 2 carriage on the right". Indeed the shield on the Mark 2 carriage was narrower than the standard Mark 1 - also see the bottom of page 1 of this thread.

As far as I can tell the shield on the Mark 3 carriage was the same as on the Mark 2.

H.

[tankbarrell]

That shield in Robs picture of the MkII is clearly different to the shields on the MkIII guns in other pics. It has no folding flaps for drag ropes and quite a bit of stowage on the front of the shield.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by tankbarrell

That shield in Robs picture of the MkII is clearly different to the shields on the MkIII guns in other pics. It has no folding flaps for drag ropes and quite a bit of stowage on the front of the shield.

Ah yes, I was looking at the width of the shield primarily.

H.

[rnixartillery]

The spares box frame is fitted lower left on the MkIII beside the flap allowing it to open and the Tool box is carried on the rear of the carriage behind the perch. Clearly the MkII has all this carried on the shield in different locations and as Adrian has pointed out minus the flaps.
The reason I am trying to figure this all out is because I have found a MKII carriage/Gun but it has the wrong shield on it.


Rob...................rnixartillery.