Morris Commercial CD/SW L.A.D. Help!

[Stefano Ruggeri]

Greetings from (anything but) Sunny Italy,
I'm restoring a Morris Commercial CD/SW L.A.D. and I need help! Is there anyone out there with a similar vehicle that I could come and see? or has plans of the seating/stowage arrangement? A nice man at the REME museum has told me that they have one in storage that I can wrap a tape measure around, but two is always better than one! Also, I'm predictably in need of spares :- distributor, autovac, engine gaskets, oil filter, pistons, headlights and anything that isn't actually already bolted on to the poor thing..
.....I even need the crane
Thanks for reading, and hope you like the pictures!
Stef.

[Stefano Ruggeri]

Will post pictures of Fox (it really is rather a nice one) soon as I can

[alleramilitaria]

another sick puppy with a morris
dave

[Stefano Ruggeri]

......and it's not the only morris I've got either...there's a '40 CS8 as well...

I'll just lie down for a bit in a dark corner and then I'll feel better..

Stef

[alleramilitaria]

all of us morris owners need to get together and have a support group.

hello my name is "your name here", and i have a morris problem.

[Norm Cromie (RIP)]

Hi Stef:

Being a vehicle restorer in Italy you might be able to satisfy my curiosity regarding an incident that occurred in September of 1943. My regiment (THE 48TH HIGHLANDERS) was rapidly moving up the coast from Reggio to Catanzaro when word came that an Italian mountain division had agreed to surrender to the allies. We hastily decided to carry out this surrender. I was with a section of about six soldiers and an officer from the PPCLI's. How this officer came to be the person in charge of this operation I do not know as he was from the 3rd Brigade and my group was from the 1st Brigade. We went racing up the mountain to this division HQ where we were met by the commanding officer and his staff all decked out in their dress uniforms. He presented to our officer what I believe was some kind of a ceremonial sword. Things were going great until our young officer noticed the General had a berretta pistol as his side arm, which was considered quite a prize. The young officer demanded that the Division commander turn over this weapon, where upon all hell broke loose. We, being outnumbered by about 500 to 1 I must confess raised my blood pressure a little. Finally our officer agreed to let the Italian commander keep his pistol. It was then decided that we would all head back down to the coast in a vehicle that looked like an open top troop carrier but it had a very strange rear wheel configuration that somehow was related to the front steering mechanism. The young Italian driver who carried us down the mountain I think was attempting to break the world speed record for mountain descending. It was one of the most hair-raising rides of my life. As we sped around the tight curves I had the feeling that somehow I was in a trailer swinging out on each bend. Now it has been over 60 years ago and I am curious to know whether there was such a military vehicle with front and back steering. Sorry for the long thread but you must expect a long dragged out inquiry from an old vet.

[Rolf S. Ask]

Norm
Could it have been a vehicle like this one?? Althoe not firebrigade red...



Chers

Rolf

Source:
http://images.search.yahoo.com/searc...tt=14&ei=UTF-8

[Norm Cromie (RIP)]

Cmpnorge

Sorry, don't know your first name but I want to thank you for confirming a gap in my memory. When I close my eyes and see this vehicle in military camoflage it sure fits the bill. This vehicle that I was refering to was probably owned by the divisional commander. As I said in my thread the speed at which we were able to take those hair pin curves not only amazed me but scared the hell out of me. Thanks again for your help. There are so many of you MLU'ers out there that it is a wonderful source for obtaining factual information on WW2.

[Rolf S. Ask]

salve stefano.
non ci sono solo gli italiani ad andare matte per i morrison,anche il mio compagno lo fa,anche se la sua di macchina e un po` piu piccola.
qua il tempo e altro che bello..piove dirotto da una settimana almeno.
sono stata 11 anni a milano e mi mancha il bel tempo.

saluti da anita

[Rolf S. Ask]

Norm
Just nice I could help.

My name is Rolf Sigurd Ask but guess most of you have trouble with it

My Sure name would be Ash (tree) in english.. and not just :

Rolf

[Stefano Ruggeri]

O.K. It took me a while, but here are a few further remarks to fill you in a bit more regarding the vehicle you had a near death experience with in Italy back in 1943!
Basically, the Italian Army's experience with four wheel drive / four wheel steering vehicles dates back to the first world war with the Pavesi Tolotti artillery tractor, which was quite an ingenious contraption, there being no chassis as such with the front and rear parts of the vehicle being joined together via a central pivot allowing the front part to be tilted at a different angle to the rear (there was no suspension at the wheels), whilst steering was accomplished via a central pinion, with both parts of the vehicle abuting against this with half moon shaped racks. The Pavesi Tolotti gun tractor had phenomenal off road abilities for the time allied to the minisule turning circle deemed neccessary for operations in the mountain regions where the fighting was in world war one. The vehicle must have impressed the British Army too, since Armstrong-Siddeley apparently obtained a producion licence and one example was put through it's paces by the WVEE in 1929, although I don't know how many (if any) were actually built.
Into the thirties, Italian military doctrine had changed very little from 1918, so with a breathtaking disregard for the fact that it might have to defend vast areas of desert in a future war it commisioned a new range of artillery tractors with four wheel steering. The two new models, known as the SPA Trattore Leggero 1937 (TL 37) and SPA Trattore Medio 1940 (TM 40) were much more sophisicated than their predecessors however, having a proper chassis that allowed for greatly increased stowage capabilities and incorporating a new type of four wheel drive/steering that was known as "volta corretta" (corrected steering). Basically, drive was taken from the gearbox to a massive central transfer case from which emerged four transmission shafts, each of which led to one of the hubs, each of which incorporated a differential. Suspension was independent all round. Both types were similar in basic layout, with open top "torpedo" bodywork, but the TL 37 was powered by a 4 litre sidevalve, whilst the much larger foreward control TM 40 used a 9.4 litre diesel. They were probably the best softskin vehicles produced under the aegis of the "Regio Esercito", although not really ideal for the wide open spaces of North Africa and Russia where the majority were sent. The TL 37 and TM 40 chassis were also adapted to a variety of other roles, but I'll stop here otherwise I'll never finish!
Hope this has been of interest,
Stef
Will post some photos as soon as poss.

[Norm Cromie (RIP)]

Stef

Thanks again for your excellent discription of these vehicles. You have helped confirm that I was not suffering from vino hallucinations in 1943. Although my stay in Sicily and Italy had its tragic moments I became very fond of the landscapes and gregarious exciteing Italian culture. My wife and I went back to Italy in 1977 backpacking and I was gratified to find the Italian people still had their vibrant and interesting life styles.
Thanks again Norm.

[Larry Hayward]

Dear Stef,

I have several photos of Morris Commercials that I have taken over the last 27 years and I will dig out some of an CD/SW LAD.

In the interim I have attached another I saw a few years ago in Dorset

[Richard Farrant]

Originally posted by Larry Hayward
I have several photos of Morris Commercials that I have taken over the last 27 years and I will dig out some of an CD/SW LAD.

In the interim I have attached another I saw a few years ago in Dorset

Larry,

The one in the photo is actually a gun tractor.

Stefano,

There is a CDSW Breakdown truck being restored by friends of a Forum member, I am surprised this message has gone unnoticed by him.

Rory Ballard is the owner and it has been featured on this forum, last pictures were of the chassis being rebuilt, see the following thread;
http://www.mapleleafup.org/forums/sh...highlight=cdsw

Rory's Signals Clerk, Mr. FV623 is slacking in his duties for not responding to your message earlier

regards,
Richard

Originally posted by Richard Farrant

Rory Ballard is the owner and it has been featured on this forum, last pictures were of the chassis being rebuilt, see the following thread;
http://www.mapleleafup.org/forums/sh...highlight=cdsw

Rory's Signals Clerk, Mr. FV623 is slacking in his duties for not responding to your message earlier

Quite so.
In fact a heap has been done and I would have posted pictures but my new confuser with XP Pro refuses to have anything to do with my smart card reader or its CD ROM, not "Logo Approved" don't you know.

I have attempted to buy another from Epay for the princely sum of a fiver including postage on the 11th Oct, nothing has arrived except a dispatch notification and one reply from the seller who says he has loads and will send another as he assumes its lost in the post.

I think I may have to speak to Epay as no further replies to emails are forthcoming and the fiver is on my card statement.

Also, young Ballard has been donated a confuser and allegedly has had a net connection set up, I have the email address but I cannot divulge this without permission.

Furthermore some extra-curricula activities have been making inroads to the restoration dedication, likewise I cannot divulge the facts here.

Computer, typing and the net is going to be a steep learning curve and I cannot know if he will choose to spend hours at the kbd like some of us do; however, I will send the link for this thread and you may expect even that to cause some consternation.

It may be a while yet before I can relinquish my Sigs Clerk duties.

R.

[Mike K]

Originally posted by alleramilitaria
all of us morris owners need to get together and have a support group.

hello my name is "your name here", and i have a morris problem.

I agree Dave . I have bits of five different Morris CS8's and a more or less complete PU , plus two other PU wrecks . I doubt that I will live long enough to see any of them on the road ....

I am working on a 1950 Land Rover presently , around a years work to see it on the road . Finding bits for ther landy is hard enough , for the Morris' I might as well build a forge and make my own , or wander over to the UK , but I think it's just as difficult there . A certain Morris nut in Hampshire seems to have rounded up all of the surplus Morris bits left in the whole European continent .

Mike - webmaster of the MCC web site

[alleramilitaria]

well then mike let me have the PU and i will see that its restored

ill be down to pick it up in afew months.
dave

[Larry Hayward]

Richard,

I was well aware it was a Gun tractor! When I said attached a photo of another I meant version!

[Larry Hayward]

Stef,

This CDSW LAD was photographed at Biggin Hill in May 1978 but I have not seen it at any MVT shows for many years now, so I have no idea who owns it or where it is kept. Perhaps its the one referred to in the above mentioned link.

Larry

[Larry Hayward]

Stef,

And a final shot. Sorry about the colour of these - my early photos have faded over the years.
'
Richard sorry if I sounded a bit 'touchy' with my first reply this evening- no offence intended! Its just seemed to me that I have to be word perfect to post on this forum or get slaughtered:love:

[Larry Hayward]

Not quite the last!

[Richard Farrant]

Originally posted by Larry Hayward
Its just seemed to me that I have to be word perfect to post on this forum or get slaughtered:love:

Larry,

No worries.

Incidentally, the pics of the CDSW at Biggin, could well have been one owned by MVCG members from Hook Norton, Oxfordshire, by the name of Houlahan and Busby. I have no doubt that Pete Ashby will know a little bit more. The vehicle did dissappear from the scene, but I have a feeling it is the one now at the REME museum collection in Bordon, having been through a restoration.

Richard

[Stefano Ruggeri]

Here are a few photos....

This is one of the Pavesi Tolotti that I mentioned earlier...

[Stefano Ruggeri]

....and here's the Armstrong Siddeley licence built version on trials with the WVEE....

[Stefano Ruggeri]

......this is a nice example of a SPA TL 37....

[Stefano Ruggeri]

........and this is a factory photo of a TM 40.....

[Stefano Ruggeri]

Originally posted by Larry Hayward
I have several photos of Morris Commercials that I have taken over the last 27 years and I will dig out some of an CD/SW LAD.

Thanks very much for the photos Larry, although they make depressing viewing if you know what I mean..

In the meantime here's another pic. of what's left of mine..

Stef

Originally posted by Richard Farrant
. . . . . but I have a feeling it is the one now at the REME museum collection in Bordon, having been through a restoration.

If so, its regrettable the restoration didn't extend to the front diff which isn't there and seriously limits the mobility to nil on damp grass with a hint of a slope.

The design and operation of the axle linkage demands both axles be driven since the one with grip tends to lift itself and force the other one onto the ground, quite correct to balance the drive load as intended but desperate if one axle is undriven.

As the CDSW crown wheel in these worm diffs is a massive chunk of P-Bronze, we conclude many have been "weighed-in" for the cash on offer.

Be very careful with lube oil spec therefore as the bronze will not like modern GL4 or 5 spec EP gear oil; the original was a castor based product now unobtainable but after some research we have found a specific GL1 spec SAE140 gear oil designed for bronze assemblies.

R.

[Les Freathy]

Good evening Stefano
You sound a bit down with your restoration project, stick with it the end result will please you no end. To help with the stowage problem two photos the first war time , second a restored CDSW i hope they help with info you require.

Larry we must have been floating around that CDSW at Biggin Hill about the same time my photos of it are almost the same angles

les

[Les Freathy]

Photo 2