Auction: Melbourne Tank Museum

[Richard Farrant]

Originally posted by Keith Webb
I filmed that little episode - he was quite irate.

As for bargains, I thought the Dodge Weapons Carrier went quite cheaply; also the Jailbar 6X6 Marmon-Herrington.

Keith,

oohh !!!!!! Do tell us more, or do we have to wait for the DVD ?


I noted the unrestored Bedford MW went for $12,430, a good price, but then it would be fairly rare down there, but the poor little Morris Commercial 15 cwt only went to $6215. The BSA M20 was amazing at over $20,000.

I do note the prices vehicles normally go for in Aus. and these prices appear to be well over the norm. Is there a sudden interest in the scene, or was it auction hysteria?

Richard

[Keith Webb]

Hi Richard

I thought the guy was going to clobber the auctioneer!

There were several occasions where bids were missed - I don't think it was really the auctioneer's fault; in most cases where this happened the bidders were sitting on top of their chosen vehicles and were very hard to see. He continually asked people to yell out if they thought he hadn't seen them.

I may include this little episode on the DVD...

As for hysteria it was hard to say - it certainly started with great gusto and this just continued all the way. I interviewed Mike Stallwood yesterday who commented the scowl on John's face gradually turned into a smile as the sale progressed.

It certainly was the most interesting and unusual auction I've ever been to! The mood was upbeat despite the weather and gloomy lighting in the building, and there were many with pretty deep pockets. I spoke to one guy yesterday from Queensland who bought the Dingo, Saracen, one of the Macks and Lynx who commented: "I can always earn more money, but they're not making any more of those."

I was filming there yesterday and plan to go again today for a short while - lots of interesting people to meet, interview and chat to.

The morning after the auction, John's wife Pat said she'd slept with a millionaire last night, but it was a pity she had to wait until she was 75 to do it.

[Jeff Gordon]

The buy of the day was the welbike $5250 I will probably regret not buying it.
As for the BSA m20 I was going to bid $3500 max.
It was not restored
not running,
No speedo
Rotted tyres
Fake panniers (two napsacks)
Wrong tail light
damaged front guard
no brass ID tag
seat cover was U/S
brake and clutch cables U/S

Richard do your homework before bringing one over, I did and didn't think it was worth it.
They are not the rare (Yet) and definitely not that expansive

Does anyone know who bought it. Where is he from and which rock does he live under.
Jeff
P.S The catalogs were free at the end of the day.

[Wayne Henderson]

Hi Guys,
I'm in the process of cleaning my shed out so if you missed out on the WM20 at $20,000 I have a frame I could let got for $12,000 ono.

Also a rare, Ford Guntractor (minus motor) that needs a bit of work. Offers around $62,000, no tyre kickers or dreamers.

Email me with your bank account details and pin numbers.

[Max Hedges]

we sold a BSA for $3500 and then bought a jeep for $3500, dunno whether we done the right thing now.My sister has claimed the jeep as hers so it seems

[Keith Webb]

My sister has claimed the jeep as hers so it seems

Yes but does she drive it regularly? Maintain it? House it?

[Richard Farrant]

Originally posted by Jeff Gordon

Richard do your homework before bringing one over, I did and didn't think it was worth it.
They are not the rare (Yet) and definitely not that expensive

Jeff,

That was a sort of "tongue in cheek" comment I am aware that these prices were way out. Over in UK they are very sought after, but prices in general would not be much over £2,500 (about $6,000 give or take with the exchange), for a good restored one and on the road. From your description of the condition, it would go for around £1,500 - £1,800 over here.

Much as it would be fun to bring mine over for Corowa, I certainly would not wish to part with it, having had it for around 23 years now.

Richard

[alleramilitaria]

thats all well and good but anyone that knows anything about MVs know that anything with a MORRIS tag on it is worth its weight in gold. only the finest military machine on the road.

time to lay down and take my medication again

[Max Hedges]

Originally posted by Keith Webb
Yes but does she drive it regularly? Maintain it? House it?

Does She drive it? YES

Maintenance and housing are part of the contract with this sister.

Max is just realising that the women on this farm are starting to take over so watch out all you fellow MLU's that thought you were safe to visit us.

Kathy

[Keith Webb]

Originally posted by Max Hedges
Does She drive it? YES

Maintenance and housing are part of the contract with this sister.

Max is just realising that the women on this farm are starting to take over so watch out all you fellow MLU's that thought you were safe to visit us.

Kathy

Looks like I got the FGT out in the nick of time! It even survived a Yass oilchange

[Max Hedges]

Keith Helen(Max's sister) saw your vehicle and had already decided not to keep it anyway, your oil change must've been supervised.

[Sydneymver]

Just reading this forum, and rubbing my hands on the price now on jeeps, i must note $40k for a Ferret, is that correct ????
I sold my Fully, yes Fully restored one for $14k, wish i still had it and sold it to the guy who just missed out on John's.
What did it look like and was the Gold plating shiny on it !!!!

Lets see a pic of it someone.

Bruce McCann
ps was it better than my old one ?

[Keith Webb]

Originally posted by Sydneymver
ps was it better than my old one ?

I don't think so, Bruce! And at least your one was in running order. John's hadn't run for 14 or so years. Evidently the bins must have contained the gold bullion.

Here's a pic of it, complete with dust:

[Keith Webb]

Here's the golden M20.

I've updated all the relevant pages with pre-auction estimates and the actual hammer prices (exclusive of buyer's premium and GST).

This of course doesn't cover everything sold.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Sydneymver
Lets see a pic of it someone.

The catalogue is still online, featuring photos of some of the lots sold.

http://www.bonhamsandgoodman.com.au/...php?auction=21

"A Ferret FV701E Mk. 2 Reconnaissance Scout Car
Lot No. 78
Manufacturer: Daimler, U. K. Crew: Two. Engine: Engine: Rolls Royce B60 Mk. 6A, 4. 26 litre 6cyl. petrol engine. Approx. Weight: 4,394kg. numbered '115212', bearing the markings of B Squadron, 4/19th Prince of Wales Light Horse Regiment, circa late 1960s"

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Some more press clippings, giving a good insight in the man John Belfield:

War and pieces of artillery: a life's work for sale
April 15, 2006

WHEN John Belfield takes his pride and joy for a cruise down his Narre Warren driveway, his neighbour complains that his house shakes.

A 50-tonne Centurion main battle tank will have that effect. It is one of more than 70 military vehicles and artillery pieces from World War I through to the Vietnam War that the former army reservist has amassed and restored over half a century.

"I'm a spanner man," is the 74-year-old's simple explanation of a patriotic obsession that spills out of the huge enclosure that houses his Melbourne Tank Museum. "I didn't like the gory part, the terrible waste of war, but I was always interested in the technical side."

During 26 years as a recovery mechanic in the army reserve, Mr Belfield scoured farms and army sites across the country for the restored relics that make up his collection.

His arsenal includes World War II Matilda tanks with flame-throwers, an AC1 Sentinel and AC3 Thunderbolt tank, an M3 A1 Stuart tank, anti-aircraft guns, a mobile radar unit, a Mack tank transporter, a white half-track armoured vehicle and a Saracen armoured personnel carrier.

His weapons of destruction are surrounded by the paraphernalia of war — searchlights, bugles, uniforms and gas masks. Plastic soldiers fight historic battles within glass cases.

To Mr Belfield's bitter disappointment, his life's work will go under the auctioneer's hammer two days before Anzac Day and is likely to be spread across the globe. The tank museum opens for the last time tomorrow.

With age creeping up on him, Mr Belfield ended his seven-year quest to find an Australian home for the collection as an entity after failing to interest federal and state governments, the RSL and Australian museums.

"My main aim was to get a new home where this important part of Australian military history, this unique and tangible evidence of our Anzac tradition, would be preserved," he said.

"Every machine here has at least 100 young soldiers that have been involved in fighting in them or maintaining them."

But Giles Moon, head of collectables at auction house Bonhams & Goodman, said there was phenomenal interest from North American and European private collectors and war memorabilia dealers. "There is probably more interest than any auction I have ever been involved with," he said. "I get 20 to 30 calls a day."

He said it was hard to gauge what the collection would sell for as there was no yardstick, but he estimated around $1 million.

With the break-up of his collection imminent, Mr Belfield is down but not out. He plans to carry on tinkering in his workshop from 8am to 7pm, a long-held routine interrupted only for repeats of the TV show MASH last year.

His wife Pat points to the 100-odd rusted relics cluttering their eight-hectare property behind the museum. "I call them 'bones' — the rusted axles, bonnets and bits," she says. "I keep saying John will have (the museum) full again in two years."

The daughter of a prisoner of war captured in Singapore by the Japanese, she has always supported her husband's obsession. "While the bills were getting paid, I didn't mind what he brought home."

Some of Mr Belfield's prized acquisitions are not for sale, such as the army wrecker he drove from 1962 to 1972 and his beloved Dodge weapons carrier, which he converted for use for many family expeditions across the outback. "He will take that Dodge to the grave," says son Bill. "And even then he'll probably drive it in."

Source: www.theage.com.au

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Tank sale brings out the big guns
Worldwide militaria collectors shelled out for an arsenal of war materiel write Anthony Davies
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
10may06

AMID the glazed stares of rival auctioneers, Bonhams successfully sold the contents of John Belfield's private Melbourne Tank Museum two days before Anzac day.

The company continues to post good results for highly specialised auctions eschewed by rival art auction firms.
John Belfield dates his passion for collecting and restoring military vehicles to the gift of a toy tank from his mother at the age of six.

He purchased his first full-size military vehicles in the late 1950s when they were being sold off as scrap metal and were considered highly undesirable.

In the 1960s, numerous items were acquired to prevent their conversion to farm or industrial uses, but it's a theme of military collecting that values have stayed reasonably low, given the general aversion to owning items of war.

So Belfield's investment will have been modest compared with someone investing in vintage cars or antique furniture. The real money is spent on restoration, conservation and in storage of material that is far too big to fit in most suburban carports.

In terms of a long-term investment Belfield's collection has performed admirably.

Growing rapidly over nearly 50 years, the mounting numbers of tanks, trucks, guns and paraphernalia were eventually housed at Narre Warren North, outside Melbourne, in a site he developed into a small museum, intending to focus attention on Australia's contribution to the two world wars.

The collection sold for a handsome $1.47 million, with numerous items realising figures way above pre-sale estimates.

The auctioneers struggled to adequately catalogue and estimate the sale, unsurprising given the scarcity of similar material offered in this country and the limited references available.

Military equipment is also rarely marked in an obvious way with make and model number, marketing not being high on the agenda of the manufacturers who've secured profitable government contracts.

It's difficult when sitting in a large, draughty shed surrounded by dozens of over-scaled trucks and piles of green-drab machinery to accurately tell the S1HH-T from the Z11-A.

Previous auctions in Australia included smaller groups of military items in regional NSW, Western Australia, and Queensland. In 1997, the Australian War Memorial in Canberra sold a group of deaccessioned vehicles, which saw strong bidding for a large army DUKW, an amphibious jeep, and several troop transport vehicles. A B-25 bomber was sold before the auction to an American buyer for about $180,000.

Bonham's auction of the Belfield collection attracted nearly a thousand spectators, including agents for various American, English and Middle Eastern buyers.

Featuring more than 50 military vehicles including tanks, APCs, armoured cars, trucks and motorcycles, Belfield's sale also had 20 artillery pieces and a diverse range of other militaria from both world wars and the Vietnam War.

Top lots were a Churchill Mk VII tank, a Centurion main battle tank, Australian World War II prototype tanks, a Buffalo amphibious landing craft, a Saladin armoured car, a BSA M20 Solo motorcycle, a Diamond T recovery truck and a Mack tank transporter.

For those with difficult neighbours, there was a 3.7 inch heavy anti-aircraft gun, a 40mm Bofors anti-aircraft gun, field guns, howitzers, mortars, and an impressive display of more ordinary projectiles. The lucky buyers could supplement all this with a mobile radar unit, a mobile steam kitchen, and various powerful searchlights.

Other highlights included two cruiser tanks, an AC1 Sentinel and an AC3 Thunderbolt. The tanks were designed and built in Australia during the early part of World War II when the Australian army was short of modern tanks. Only 65 Sentinels were produced before production ceased when overseas tanks became available. The Thunderbolt was an improved version of the Sentinel but wasn't produced in quantity. This AC3 was assembled from parts collected by Mr Belfield, the only other example residing at the Australian War Memorial.

Included were two Matilda tanks, named "Frogs", fitted in Australia with flame throwers to be used in the South West Pacific during World War II.

Giles Moon of Bonhams & Goodman reflected on the importance of the highly specialised collection, pointing out the wide international interest the auction had attracted, drawing collectors and dealers from England, the Netherlands and the US.

In accordance with practice in military collecting circles, and the law, every item had been disarmed, meaning that few pieces were likely to see active use again except for demonstrations or re-enactments.

Among the more exotic buyers, Mike Stallwood of English vintage military dealers R.R Services represented someone described as a Middle Eastern crown monarch to bid on lots for a new military museum.

"The Australians reached into their pockets and all the important stuff has stayed here - especially the guns," Stallwood says.

Stallwood claims a number of the armoured vehicles had brought world record prices, including the Ferret scout car, which sold locally for $45,000 despite estimates of only $8000-10,000 - double previous world auction records.

Most of the larger items in the sale would have been purchased for low sums years ago, when a tank was just a tank and no one wanted to pay the transport fees, let alone much for the machine itself. In this respect, the investment performed astonishingly well.

An English bidder was successful in acquiring an M3A1 Stuart light tank for $45,000, and a Staghound armoured car for $62,000, despite it having no engine and a pre-sale estimate of just $15,000 to 20,000.

A World War II folding Wellbike motorcycle, used by English paratroops and highly collectable in England, where they can be fitted into a car boot and used on the farm, sold for $6200, about the going British price. An Australian-made Bren Gun Carrier made $21,500 and a World War II anti-aircraft gun sold above expectations at $34,000.

In Australia, there's a healthy and growing interest in ex-military vehicles. The most obvious sign of this is the large number of vintage Jeeps being restored here. The Jeep (for GP or general purpose vehicle) was introduced in 1941 and produced by Ford, Bantam, and Willy's.

Plenty of examples are available for sale in Australia, ranging from rough but running examples at around $6000 to concours standard restorations at close to $20,000.

Almost every mechanical and body part is available as a new reproduction from the US. The authenticity is, however, affected and despite the cost (about $30,000 for a complete car with new chassis, body and the usual hard-to-get pieces), a vehicle using mainly new components only resells for about $18,000. The market will also be smaller, as investors focus on originality rather than just authenticity.

© The Australian

Source: www.theaustralian.news.com.au

What I don't understand is why all you aussies did'nt come together and Build a place for this lads collection . breaking up a museum sucks!! Aberdeen in the USA shoulda bought everything and send the lot over here. Its pretty sad your goverment could give 2 shiots about it Military ww2 history, that wouldn't happen here in the USA, But maybe this young fella selling all these vehicles knows something we don't Just my opinion, Cheers


BIG MIKE

[Tony Smith]

Originally posted by BIG MIKE
Its pretty sad your goverment could give 2 shiots about it Military ww2 history, that wouldn't happen here in the USA
BIG MIKE

Now, now, Mike. Save your comments until you've actually visited the AWM in Canberra. It's an outstanding living memorial to the sacrifices and achievements in Australia's Military history, quite possibly equal to any other museum in the world .
As every politician knows, there's votes in patriotism, and the succesive Aust Governments have done well to provide such an outstanding Museum/Memorial without resorting to heaping credit upon themselves and their ilk. Every cent they receive at the AWM is used to remind Australians of the service of Aust Soldiers, Sailors and Airmen in wars from the Sudan in the 1880's to the present day. Much of what they have in their collections is utterly unique, irreplaceable and relevant. While a lot effort goes into presenting these items for display, the main thrust of their activities lie in documentation, preservation and conservation of original items. Sometimes items like a crappy BSA bike have no place in the paramount "Military Museum" in Australia.

[alleramilitaria]

mike befor you start saying anything about aberdeen or anyother US government museum getting the collection just take a look at the sad condition of out museums here in the US. for the most part the way the US museums are run is bordering on criminal!!!
i have worked for 4 of them around the US and in europe. one had ALL the weapons from shotguns to light cannons de-milled by cutting them in 3 by torch and then tack welding them back togther for display (ft lewis), one was given a running M-4. that one had the oil drained and then run at full speed to blow the engine, one has a rare mid war (WWI) british tank that is rusting into the ground, one had to even give its FT-7 back to france due to the deplorable shape it was in. the US army even refuses to take rare tanks and AFVs due to the fact that we have NO army museum!!!!! NONE!!!! i cant think of a single nation that does not have a army museum, except for the USA! we have a infantry, armour, ADA, engeneer, etc museum but NO army museum. and im here to tell you that the museums HATE to get items. most of the people that work at the museums 80-90% have never served in the military and dont give a crap about the military or the museum. most see it as a stepping stone to a national parks slot, or a way to get items for there books that they author. its all a scam that in a embarisment to the US military. some museums run by private 501c3 groups are better (USS texas, USS alabama, etc..) but they are hamstrung by the center for military history. if you get a sherman on loan from them you have to pay for the transport there, cant run it, cant move it, cant paint it, cant maintain it, and at any time they can show up at your doorstep and demand it back and you have to pay there (government) cost to ship it back to the storage facility at the NTC in calafornia ($5 to 10 a mile). just ask the national museum of the pacific war in texas, or the big museum in NJ that was raided about 10 - 15 years ago. if the US cant maintain the museum i see no reason to even thnik of bringing it here. i think that this is a great chance for the ausies to get many vehicles back to collectors and restored so that some of them may be up and running again for people to enjoy.

OK I guess I was wrong on your Goverment , But for this Lad selling off his collection , What Gives? also that Great movie with Mel Gibson Gilipoli was it a Brit General Giving all the commands for the Aussi Light horse to charge to thier deaths and did that Brit commander if it was one, get replaced? how many were left in the Light horse regt after the war.


BIG MIKE

[Tony Smith]

Originally posted by BIG MIKE
But for this Lad selling off his collection , What Gives?

John Belfield is in his 70's now and none of us live forever. Of course, there might still have been an estate sale at some distant point in the future and everything might have been sold anyway, but at least this way John has the opportunity to impart some knowledge and assistance to the new owners. Having that knowledge passed down is just as important as the saving the vehicle.

[alleramilitaria]

YOU HIT IT ON THE HEAD TONY.
without people helping me who have been in the hobby for many years i would still be trying to start my first jeep.

So Dave that means your selling off your stuff too , I want 1st dibs laddy , LOL


Cheers Big Mike

[alleramilitaria]

not selling anything but my ferret. its just that i have worked for the CMH system and know what a BS system it is. i have even heard one major curiator say that she thought it would be great if it was against the law for a civilian to own any military vehicle "all historical artifacts should belong only to the government", and how she detested the MVPA.

[Ian Fawbert]

Wooh Tony ...

Sometimes items like a crappy BSA bike have no place in the paramount "Military Museum" in Australia.

I concour fully with the above!

BUT...

Surely the AC1 Sentinel or AC3 Thunderbolt deserve a place in the AWM- did or didn't Mike Cecil have his head screwed on properly when he bought the Diamond T for 27k (as thats where it went wasnt it?- the AWM) and not one of these tanks- which in comparison to the Sentinel and Thunderbolt, the Diamond T is a common vehicle!

Why did they do this? Seems like a bad idea to me? At least at the AWM they would be on display/accessible? Not in a shed here or abroad...


As a side note- I`m not sure where the article got its info- John B i guess, but I know there is another Sentinel- AC1 (i believe) in NSW- TURRETLESS though, but it and the owner keep a VERY low profile!

Cheers,
Ian.

[Tony Smith]

I'm can't really say too much here as what I do know is all hearsay, and I'm not certain that it did come from the right part of the horse's anatomy. As stated above, the AWM is primarily concerned with the provenance of items and their documented link with Australian servicemen in war. As a Memorial, they are not a technical museum that needs every example of every vehicle ever used by the Australian Army, but only those that relate to a particular theatre of war, and more importantly, a particular action or battle, or a particular person.
John Belfield had at his museum one of the Japanese Type 95 Ha-Go tanks that were knocked out at Milne Bay in 1942, a major battle honour for the Australian Army. This battle was the first time the Japanese Army had been defeated in battle, an outstanding feat considering they had been fighting since 1931! How this iconic relic ever got out of the hands of the Army or the AWM (sold for scrap?!?), I'll never know, but it has now been bought by the AWM by prior negotiation because it was, for them, the jewel in John's collection.
The Sentinel tanks, (of which the AWM already has 2) while an amazing milestone in the development of military technology in Australia, never saw action and were only used for training. I also understand that Mike Cecil has a different point of view regarding the AC3 being an accurate restoration, using as it does range-recovered bits, unfinished castings and components from a Grant. Is it the Holy Grail or just a Replica? I'm glad that it exists to look at and touch and would love to own it, but my objectives are not the same as the AWM's, and they are not the same as John's, who has done tremendous job of saving bits of Australian technical history.
That said, I don't understand why Puckapunyal wasn't in there trying to secure these unique tanks for their collection, which IS more of a technical collection. Maybe the money wasn't available?

At the risk of incurring their wrath for inaccurate reporting, perhaps we could invite comments here from Mike Cecil or Maj Paul Handel to clarify matters?

Pic:
"1942-10-01. NEW GUINEA. MILNE BAY. AN AUSTRALIAN MILITIA OFFICER WHO TOOK PART IN THE MILNE BAY FIGHTING, WITH AN ENEMY TYPE 95 HA-GO LIGHT TANK KNOCKED OUT DURING THE UNSUCCESSFUL JAPANESE ATTACK. "

[Ian Fawbert]

Well Tony I am glad to hear that. And i think you have stated everything out perfectly in your reply.

I suppose i did go off a bit half cocked- ie: i didnt know Mikes 'stance' on the AC3 nor did i know they already had 2 of the tanks in their posession, but am relieved to hear they got the 95 HA GO tank before it went walkabout around the world!

As for pucka, i agree, but again, we dont know their circumstances as you said.

Anyway, what is done is done and i`m sorry if i have offended anyone with my comments somehow... i spose you and i with our few 'lil dollars cant change it now anyway!


Cheers- and the mag should be out mid next week.
Ian.

[EnfieldGuy]

I read through but did not see a price....

What did the Churchill Tank sell for at the Melbourne Tank Museum Auction???

What a beauty (but what a shame).

[Keith Webb]

The Churchill made $34,000 Aust plus buyer's premium.