Dodge Power Wagon in military use (was: Dodge DD4-60)

[Tony Smith]

A new truck to me, who has details on a Dodge DD4-60? Dates, numbers produced? It has wartime and postwar features and looks like parts cobbled together from various Dodge models. The cab is a hardtop that does not separate at the beltline like the T110L. The truck is left hand drive and features the larger canadian engine, but has a "US weapons carrier" type radiator surround, not the later M37 style. Are there many of these still left?

Serial number: 90060753

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

My listing shows that this was in the batch # 90,059,129 to 90,061,086, for a Canadian Model DD-4, 1947 Model, Engineering Code T-118-G-160.

[JD Baillie]

Kind of looks like your basic Dodge Power Wagon. Little changed during its production run of 1946 to 1972.

JD

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Here's a pic of a Dodge Power Wagon, taken in 1960 on Darwin RAAF Air Base in Northern Australia (from John Small).

Does anyone have more info on their use by the Australian Armed Forces?

H.

[mike mckinley]

according to my 1960 census manual, canada had some aswell. they carried a vehicle code of 142107, truck, cargo, 3/4 ton, 4x4, w/winch, chrysler corp model c-1-pw, 1954, and, c-3-pw, 1955.

here is the image from the canadian army catalogue of ordnance stores, generic listing of vehicle and tracked equipments, engineering equipments and attachments showing census numbers, march 1960

mike

[Lynn Eades]

Dont take this as gospel, but I understand the basic cab was built from about 1941 to 1970. The longest production ever.
There is also a DD2-20. A 4x2,3speed, light truck, with the 41 to 46 commercial front end.

[Col Tigwell]

My understanding is the RAAF was the only user in Australia, and they were configered as early rescue trucks.

Problem was that by the time they were finished, they were so heavy that the oridinary fire trucks would get there first.

Were not viewed with great pleasure, and did not remain in service too long.

There was at least one in Perth, owned by a fellow called Bob Stevenson, but I think he sold it in the late 90's.

If there are any around they should be still in good shape, if they were stored well, Bob's when I saw it looked like new.

Regards

Col Tigwell

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Thanks all, never knew the Canadian Army used them. Nice to see the Australian use confirmed, too.

Interesting to see how the military Dodge WC series evolved into the civilian Power Wagon, which in turn was adopted again by the military. The US Army used them too, albeit it seems mainly in specialist roles. Out of 95,145 examples built, the US supplied 13,460 supplied to friendly nation's armies under the Military Defense Assistance Program. Another 41,304 were exported commercially, among which were quite sizeable numbers to the Dutch Army who used them in the former colonies. These trucks, along with many others, were acquired from commercial sources as there was a boycott on military materiel being supplied to the Dutch Army in the colonies. They were shipped as chassis/cowls and bodied locally - see Dodge Power Wagon in use with KNIL.

H.

[Tony Smith]

The reason for my original query is that the DD4-60 appears to have different features from any other Dodge such as a WW2 WC- series, a Power Wagon, or the M37.
The Power Wagon was used by the RAAF and had a 250ci flathead six cylinder engine. Note the wheels are disc wheels with split rims. The radiator surround is quite rounded in comparison to the WC series Dodges, with similarities to the T-234 Burma Dodge. I think the RAAF PW's were US sourced.

[Tony Smith]

The WW2 WC- series Dodges had a 230ci flathead six, which was shorter in length than the 250. The radiator surround was squarer in comparison to the Power Wagon. Wheels were 2 piece bolted Combat Rims.

[Tony Smith]

The M37 has a different rad surround again, similar to the WW2 WC, but broader.

[Tony Smith]

The Owner of the DD4-60 stated that the vehicle had the Canadian 236ci engine of the T110L (D60), was fitted with combat rims and the WW2 WC style "Flat" radiator surround. I don't think this vehicle was a Power Wagon with WC bits added.
Was the Power Wagon built in Canada, or only in Dodge's US plant in Detroit?

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Tony Smith
The reason for my original query is that the DD4-60 appears to have different features from any other Dodge such as a WW2 WC- series, a Power Wagon, or the M37.
The Power Wagon was used by the RAAF and had a 250ci flathead six cylinder engine. Note the wheels are disc wheels with split rims. The radiator surround is quite rounded in comparison to the WC series Dodges, with similarities to the T-234 Burma Dodge. I think the RAAF PW's were US sourced.

Tony,

Dodge used two different engines in the Power Wagons between the years of 1946 and 1968. The 230ci Flat Head 6 was used from 1946 until 1960 and the 251ci Flat Head 6 was used from 1961 onwards.

Although the model designation DD4-60 does not ring a bell to me, Dodge used a bewildering array of model designations, both under the Dodge and Fargo names. Most if not all were built in the US, but many were assembled overseas. As far as I can see, there is nothing special about the Power Wagon you pictured, apart from the "tray".

Yes, they are different from the WC and M37 series - see http://www.t137.com/ and http://www.dodgepowerwagon.com for more info about the Power Wagon.

Hanno

[Tony Smith]

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
Although the model designation DD4-60 does not ring a bell to me, Dodge used a bewildering array of model designations, both under the Dodge and Fargo names. Most if not all were built in the US, but many were assembled overseas. As far as I can see, there is nothing special about the Power Wagon you pictured, apart from the "tray".

True, Dodge built an amazing variety of vehicles with many similarities and differences. That's why I asked IF IT IS ACTUALLY a Power Wagon. The builder's plate shows it made by Chrysler Corp of Canada and branded as a Dodge truck model DD4-60. It has neither a 230 or 251, but a Canadian made 236.
The US built Power Wagons were either branded as Dodge for the US market or as Fargo for export.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Tony Smith
The builder's plate shows it made by Chrysler Corp of Canada and branded as a Dodge truck model DD4-60. It has neither a 230 or 251, but a Canadian made 236.

A Dodge Power Enigma?!? Canuck Wagon?!?

Try asking here: http://www.dodgepowerwagon.com/wwwboard/index.html

H.

[mike mckinley]

hi all

here are my thoughts on this truck. the 236cid engine was a canadian engine used in the d8a scout 1/2 ton made in canada for export during the war. according to the design record, this same engine was used in the d3/4-apt of 1944-45. the combat rims on the pictured truck look to me like the ones used on the d 3/4- apt less the lifting rings.

the 251cid engine, as far as i'm aware, first appeared in the m37cdn 3/4 ton truck which went into production in 1951-52.

the 230cid engine was the american engine, which was used in military and civi trucks until 1961. at this point, the civi power wagon went to the 251 engine. the exception was the second production run of m37's, which likely for logistics purposes, retained the 230cid engine. they were known as the m37b1.

another thing to keep in mind about dodge is that they would produce "special runs" of trucks for customers. an example was the 1949 expedition to excivate king solomons mines. chrysler u.s.a. supplied, free of charge, 18 specially built power wagons, and a coronet sedan, also a special. broken down, this ammounted to 1 command car, 2 pick ups, 2 ambulances, 8 stake beds, 3 tippers with blade, and 2 refer bodied trucks. all were equipped with braden winches and air compressors.

in my opinion, the truck in question was probably part of a special order. chrysler canada, after interpreting the specifications, may have determined that "mixing" civilian and military parts, would fit the order, won the contract, and produced the vehicles. today, auto manufacturing is geared to mass production, but as seen with the solomon mines project, small runs weren't out of the question back then.

mike

[mike mckinley]

hi all

i have attached one of the first post war advertisements for the dodge power wagon, thought you might enjoy seeing it.
mike

[mike mckinley]

here is another one giving a better look at the truck.

[Bill Murray]

Unfortunately, my hard copy archives are in a bit of a mess again so I don't have photos to post for the moment, but.....

The WM300 style of Power Wagon was picked by the US on it's Military Assistance Program or whatever it was called and the trucks were supplied to an amazing variety of countries on all continents. Later on, the M37 was supplied to many of the same countries. Somewhere, I have photos of them in use by the French Foreign Legion, in Sweden, in various African countries, Greece and so on. I will try to find the file today if I can.
Bill

[Rusty]

Tony a dodge power wagon with identical rear tray to the blue RAAF truck sold recently at the Delgate Clearing sale. I believe it made $600.00 , dont know who bought it but I thought at the time that the price was reasonable on the vehicle.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Bill Murray
The WM300 style of Power Wagon was picked by the US on it's Military Assistance Program or whatever it was called and the trucks were supplied to an amazing variety of countries on all continents. (...) Somewhere, I have photos of them in use by the French Foreign Legion, in Sweden, in various African countries, Greece and so on.

Although common understanding has it the open-cab M601 was the type produced by Dodge for the US MDAP, we know some full cabs were supplied to Denmark as well. This ex-Danish Army one was offered for sale at €2.500,- by the Dutch classic car dealer late 2005. Clearly visible are the fixed-type Danish front windows. This one seems to have been fitted with a van-type radio body at one time.

H.

[gordon]

The Danes just got chassis cabs I think, so all the bodies were locally built.

The US Army did not buy the PW, at least in quantity. The army was pretty much in charge of procurement but apparently they took a VERY long time to get the M37 into production (and an even longer time to get the M43 ambulance variant going) so the Department of Defence procured PWs for military assistance export and for the Navy and Marines who were not going to hang about waiting for the Army to decide what was happening. This also accounts for the PW Ambulance varaints that turn up quite often with navy and Marine Corps origins.

The truck that started it all looks like a very early post-WW2 transition truck by Chrysler Canada . That engine was fitted to D15, D60, etc and would fit the WW2 front sheetmetal with the radiator mount turned (as in the APT ) I'd expect the body to be interesting - not sure if it would be locally-made or Canadian though.

Gordon

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by gordon
The US Army did not buy the PW, at least in quantity. The army was pretty much in charge of procurement but apparently they took a VERY long time to get the M37 into production (and an even longer time to get the M43 ambulance variant going) so the Department of Defence procured PWs for military assistance export and for the Navy and Marines who were not going to hang about waiting for the Army to decide what was happening. This also accounts for the PW Ambulance varaints that turn up quite often with navy and Marine Corps origins.

Here is what probably is one of a few bought by the US military for testing & evaluation (because many pictures in Crismon's books come from test facility files). It has even been assigned a registration number, U.S.A. 2362633.

[Tony Smith]

While not in the most presentable state (and not the brightest picture!), this DD4-60 is not a Power Wagon. Note the low profile of the radiator cowling, similar to WW2 WC. Are there no references to Canadian post-war use? What vehicles did the Canadians take to Korea, or is this just a Civilian truck?

[gordon]

It is Canadian, rather than US (Chassis number and build plate)

All the parts are WW2-style (no PW sheetmetal, standard 1940-47 cab)

Bed could well have been made locally, rather than factory.

I can only conclude that this would have been either a driving chassis-cab, or a knockdown kit, supplied from Canada just after the end of the war and using up WW2 parts.

Standard PW front metal was available from 1946-on (the WDX) and the variant pictured was probably produced in quantities just large enough to use up the parts stock.


It would be possible to determine from the cab metal (where it meets the bonnet) whether it was a WW2 military type with an angle there to meet the sloped bonnet like the half ton military, or whether the cab-bonnet interface was flat like the pre-war and post war civilian trucks and the PW's

Only bonnet type that would fit that truck as pictured is the 42-45 WC 53 and WC 54 Carryall and Ambulance one. Never seen another truck like this one...

[Lang]

Tony,

What is the chassis number?

Has some enthusiast dropped a truck cab on a WC Ambulance or even a WC 51?

Just a thought.

Lang

[Tony Smith]

Originally posted by Lang
What is the chassis number?

Lang, the data plate is the 2nd pic at the top of the thread.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Another fact: DD4-60 is listed in a July 1947 Chrysler Corp of Canada truck parts list.
Serial numbers start with 90,057,439, Tony's example is 90,060,753 so quite a few thousand seem to have been built.

H.

Source: http://www.t137.com/registry/help/pa.../slide006.html

[Lang]

Tony,

The thing I find interesting is the flat WW2 era nose instead of the "boofy" Power Wagon radiator.

If thousands were built it is strange that nobody seems to know anything about them (apart from serial numbers in books), particularly Canadian members who surely would have seen one or at least a photo.

I have often in the past toyed with putting a Dodge truck cab on a WC51 with an ambulance bonnet - would give you a 3/4 ton version of what I consider the prettiest of the whole Dodge range, the 1/2 ton hard cab pick-up.

It seems the factory beat me to it, I will have to find one!!!

Lang

[cliff]

Originally posted by Lang
Canadian members who surely would have seen one or at least a photo.

It may well be that the truck was built for export only and that is the reason that the Canadian members have not seen one but it is strange that no one has seen a photo although judging from earlier posts they may have seen photos and dismissed it as a Powerwagon.

Looking at the start serial numbers posted by Hanno the one Tony pictured is about 3300 down the list. In a way I feel this is a low production run and once again being all export may be why they have been missed in the past. But who got them all?

Cheers
Cliff