Bedford MWG Anti-Tank Portee

[Hanno Spoelstra]

I think they are pushing a French 47-mm gun up the ramps.

(source: track-link.net)

[Gerry McGinty]

Dear Hanno
According to Osprey New Vanguard 'British Anti-Tank Artillery 1939-45' the gun in this photo is indeed French but is a 25mm Hotchkiss.
Regards
Gerry McGinty

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Gerry McGinty
but is a 25mm Hotchkiss

Thanks Gerry. I should have known because I have seen one in the metal!

H.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

The following two pictures are from Pictorial History of the War, 20th December 1939 - 13th February 1940 (Virtue & Co. Ltd.), and were reprinted in MVT Windscreen issue 92.

What intrigues me is that all known pictures of Bedford MW Portees show the French 25mm SA Mle1934 / SA-L Mle1937 AT guns. Obviously these pictures were made in France in 1940. Was there a shortage of 2-pdr AT guns?

H.

[claude_GILLONO]

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
What intrigues me is that all known pictures of Bedford MW Portees show the French 25mm SA Mle1934 / SA-L Mle1937 AT guns. Obviously these pictures were made in France in 1940. Was there a shortage of 2-pdr AT guns?

Yes regarding the shortage.

The gun is a model 34, the model 37 was a lighter version for easier handling (behind a horse-drawn cart).

HTH

[Rich Payne]

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
Was there a shortage of 2-pdr AT guns?

According to George Forty in his "British Army Handbook", "In 1939 some of the almost useless French 25mm Hotchkiss 34 SA infantry a tk guns were issued to the British Army in an attempt at standardization. Its anti-armour capability was minimal."

The photo he is captioning is IWM F4117 which seems to be part of a phoney war series.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Rich Payne
The photo he is captioning is IWM F4117 which seems to be part of a phoney war series.

From http://www.iwmcollections.org.uk:

Photo No.: F 4117
Photographer: Malindine (Lt) Taylor E A (Lt)
War Office official photographer
Title: THE BRITISH ARMY IN FRANCE 1940
Collection No.: 4700-35
Description: Men of 2nd Battalion Essex Regiment with a Hotchkiss 25mm SA 34 anti-tank gun, Meurchin, 27 April 1940.
Date: 27 April 1940

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
I think they are pushing a French 47-mm gun up the ramps.

Here's the original picture from http://www.iwmcollections.org.uk/

Photo No.: F 4120
Photographer: Malindine (Lt) Taylor E A (Lt)
War Office official photographer
Title: THE BRITISH ARMY IN FRANCE 1940
Collection No.: 4700-35
Description: Men of 2nd Battalion Essex Regiment load a Hotchkiss 25mm SA 34 anti-tank gun onto the back of a Bedford MWG Portee, Meurchin, 27 April 1940.
Period: 5 Second World War
Date: 27 April 1940

[Hanno Spoelstra]

And another one from http://www.iwmcollections.org.uk/

Photo No.: F 2169
Photographer: Davies (Lt)
War Office official photographer
Title: THE BRITISH ARMY IN FRANCE 1940
Collection No.: 4700-35
Description: Men of the 1st Royal Irish Fusiliers transport a French 25mm 34 SA anti-tank gun on the back of a Bedford MWD 15cwt truck at Dury, 14 January 1940.
Date: 14 January 1940

[Hanno Spoelstra]

From Bart Vanderveen's Kaleidoscope of Bedford & Vauxhall Military Vehicles:

"The Bedford MWG was an Anti-Tank Portee, also known as 'GS truck with gun mountings'. It looked like the MWD GS truck but was modified for carrying of a 2-pounder anti-tank gun in the rear body. These modifications included gun-loading ramps carried in outrigger brackets either side of the body and curved channels in fixed ramps on the body floor for the gun wheels to rest in. It had additional seats in the back and was supplied only with the 1939-style open cab. The BEF in France used the MWG to carry a 25-mm Hotchkiss gun instead of the 2-pounder.

The MWT was an Anti-Tank tractor and also similar in appearance to the early MWD GS truck but it featured a detachable tilt with windows and four seats for personnel. WD-pattern drawbar gear was fitted at the rear (similar body was also fitted to the 15-cwt Morris-Commercial CS8)."

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Probably like most of these Bedfords, pictured below is one of the Hotchkiss guns which fell into the hands of the Germans.

Source: Foto Beute Bofors Pak im Einsatz bei der Wehrmacht Artikelnummer: 200070762537

[Gunner]

From the look of the tac sign on that truck it would appear to be the junior inf bde coy of the RASC... (that or the light ack ack unit of an armoured div ) It lloks like there is a diagonal seperation of the background colours... red over green?

Mike

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Captured Bedford MWD/MWG converted into a "PaK-Träger", or whatever the Germans would call a Portee (source).

[Davidedwardmawer]

During the Polish campaign the British and French decided on closer co-operation and use of common material. One result of this was the exchange of French 25mm Hotchkiss modèle 1934 against 250 British Boys 13.9mm anti-tank rifles, ordered in March 1040, delivered in the autumn. Hence the BEF had it's 25mm's.

The French had seen that Polish Wz35 7.92mm anti-tank rifles served a purpose against lightly armoured vehicles and was more portable than it's 9mm & 13.2mm machine-guns. The Boys were issued to GRDI (groupe de reconnaissance de division d'infanterie) and air-portable infantry.

For more info on the Boys watch 'Stop That Tank!' 1942 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lkc2yAaU3CY

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Here's the original picture from http://www.iwmcollections.org.uk/

Here's a better version of this picture:

Photo No.: F 4120
Photographer: Malindine (Lt) Taylor E A (Lt)
War Office official photographer
Title: THE BRITISH ARMY IN FRANCE 1940
Collection No.: 4700-35
Description: Men of 2nd Battalion Essex Regiment load a Hotchkiss 25mm SA 34 anti-tank gun onto the back of a Bedford MWG Portee, Meurchin, 27 April 1940.
Period: 5 Second World War
Date: 27 April 1940

[Hanno Spoelstra]

See https://hmvf.co.uk/topic/33492-bedfo...tract-numbers/ for details on contracts and numbers produced