In the background

[Gunner]

Chimo Sapper!

At first glance it looks like a 25 pounder but it is a captured Italian field gun of Scoda ancestry if I don't miss my guess. Note the horizontal sliding wedge breech block and the arc shaped bits on the top shield flap. The spider type hubs are also an indicator of European vice Albion birth.

I'll grab one of my source books tonight and see if I can get you a better description.

Ubique! Mike

[sapper740]

Originally posted by Gunner
Chimo Sapper!

At first glance it looks like a 25 pounder but it is a captured Italian field gun of Scoda ancestry if I don't miss my guess. Note the horizontal sliding wedge breech block and the arc shaped bits on the top shield flap. The spider type hubs are also an indicator of European vice Albion birth.

I'll grab one of my source books tonight and see if I can get you a better description.

Ubique! Mike

Chimo! My friend. Hope all is well where-ever the CF sends you!
Here's a wild ass guess from a non-Arty type. Could this be a French Canon de 105 court mle 1935 B made by Schneider? The Germans used those as the 10.5-cm leFH 325(f) for 2nd line occupation units as well as coastal and beach defence. If this picture was taken in Algiers for instance, the French connection might make sense. Another clue, the wheels appeared to be toeing in slightly, something the mle 1935 B was known for to provide additional cover for the gun crew. Wadya think?

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

Derek, are you off your arty meds again? Remember what the doc said... you're not supposed to know that much about artillery, much less hob-nob with that peculiar lot, it's not good for you. This is simply not on, old boy, tsk-tsk.

[lynx42]

G'day,
That vehicle in the distance in the previous photo is ,I think, a FORD soft top ute. I'll find a better photo for comparison. This photo is from Bart VanDerVeen's book FIGHTING VEHICLES DIRECTORY. The howitzer is a captured italian one, one of the many used by the Ozzies along with tanks, trucks and everything else. The captured items were a great assistance in the defeal of Rommel and his army.
Rick

[sapper740]

Originally posted by lynx42
G'day,
That vehicle in the distance in the previous photo is ,I think, a FORD soft top ute. I'll find a better photo for comparison. This photo is from Bart VanDerVeen's book FIGHTING VEHICLES DIRECTORY. The howitzer is a captured italian one, one of the many used by the Ozzies along with tanks, trucks and everything else. The captured items were a great assistance in the defeal of Rommel and his army.
Rick

Thanks Rick, for the ID of the truck in the background. Considering how little detail there was you did a great job. I'm not yet convinced that the howitzer is Italian, but I've been wrong before (quiet you lot, I hear the snickering!)

Jefe, as for your recent comment, hanging out with such an esteemed bunch as we have here at MLU, something has to rub off. Ya gotta like osmosis!

[sapper740]

Here's some kit having a really bad start to the war. I'm wondering if the UC flipped while off-loading an LST. The ramp may have been too steep.

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

Originally posted by sapper740
Here's some kit having a really bad start to the war. I'm wondering if the UC flipped while off-loading an LST. The ramp may have been too steep.

Don't think so, Derek... I've seen a bigger copy of this famous pic, and there is a lot of damage to the right-side bogies. My guess is that he clipped a mine that was big enough to flip him right over. Unfortunately, reading of similar incidents, there's almost no chance the crew survived.

BTW, that's a Queen's Own Rifles' carrier IIRC, on NAN WHITE Beach near Bernières-sur-Mer.

[David Ellery]

Was browsing through some back issues of Classic MV magazine February 2004, issue 33, page13. Looking at the Ford WOTS and in the background the last row or two of Vehicles are 2 Pdr Anti Tank Portees, I count 25 Portees there, and more likely a whole row behind as well,Thats enough to make a Kiwi Portee owner skip

[Tony Smith]

The Howitzer is an Aust 4.5in Howitzer on a Mk1* Carriage (Same wheels/axle as WW1 18pdr). This pic below is the Mk2 Carriage with the same wheels and axletrees as a 25pdr.

[Tony Smith]

The 18pdrs of WW1 had timber spoked wheels, but in the 20's or 30's, with the advent of mechanised tractors, were converted to pneumatic wheels. Pictured here is an 18pdr and limber with the wheels shown:

[Tony Smith]

Here is a close-up of a pneumatic-tyres 18pdr limber.
To bring this Threadjacker2000tm post full circle, in the background is a CMP 60S Portee!

[sapper740]

Originally posted by Geoff Winnington-Ball
Don't think so, Derek... I've seen a bigger copy of this famous pic, and there is a lot of damage to the right-side bogies. My guess is that he clipped a mine that was big enough to flip him right over. Unfortunately, reading of similar incidents, there's almost no chance the crew survived.

BTW, that's a Queen's Own Rifles' carrier IIRC, on NAN WHITE Beach near Bernières-sur-Mer.

Poor S.O.B.s probably didn't even know what hit them. The Q.O.R.s suffered the greatest number of casualties of all the regiments landing on Juno, 61 killed, 77 wounded.
I wonder if the other vehicles in this pic were collateral damage from the same blast?

[Gunner]

Hi Tony:

You beat me to it!

The unusual spider rims had me fooled. I dug around last night and learned that Canada and The UK used the Martin-Parry adapters to convert 13 and 18 pounders as well as 4.5" hows from wooden to pneumatic wheels. Australia used a home grown solution which resulted in the different looking wheel arrangement.

Had me fooled! The gun I thought it was is the Scoda 100mm but once I got to looking at the pictures, the characteristic profile of the 4.5" how became obvious.

I'd like to learn more about the Aussie adaptor as it looks like it allowed for using a much wider tyre than the Martin-Parry which was quite tall and skinny. Thanks for the other photos, they're great!



Mike

[sapper740]

Originally posted by Geoff Winnington-Ball
Derek, are you off your arty meds again? Remember what the doc said... you're not supposed to know that much about artillery, much less hob-nob with that peculiar lot, it's not good for you. This is simply not on, old boy, tsk-tsk.

There is LESS-distinguished company I could associate with other than Artillery. They're not a bad bunch, really. Engineers and Artillery share more than just a battle honour...we also share a love for things that make loud noises! Right, Gunner?
My interest in artillery started when as kids we used to go to Stanley Park to hear the 9 O'clock gun (a 12 pdr muzzle loading Naval gun cast in 1816) fire every night. I also witnessed a battery of 25 pdrs saluting vessels entering the harbour numerous times. As a B.C. Lions Football fan for decades I was priveleged to watch the Gun Run on occasion, always an exciting event (did you ever participate Gunner?) Lastly, I was installing Mobile Arrester Gear on the runway at a NATO exercise when we were zoomed by a B1 practicing runway denial. There were two batteries of Skyguard present and they opened up (blanks, of course). The sound was deafening! Two batteries X two guns X 2 barrels X 550rds/min = a lot of noise. Two of my Engineer buddies dropped to the ground as if pole-axed! I had serious wood for days! Ever since I've enjoyed studying artillery.

[Gunner]

As it says on the Peace Arch between Canada and the USA.

Gunners and Sappers were born from the Board of Ordnance and definitely share many bonds- big booms, St Barbara, Ubique!, the ability to read and write and a love for big forts with "biguns" in 'em.

One small observation: a Gun/Skyguard Section was two guns (GDF 005 twin 35mm Oerlikons) and a radar trailer (Skyguard system). Two Sections made a Troop and two Troops made a Battery. Imagine THAT noise level!

Mike

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

Originally posted by Gunner
... the ability to read and write ...

Don't lie, that was taught to you by your betters in the Infantry and Armour branches, during those rare occasions we found you in a moderately sober state.

[sapper740]

Originally posted by Geoff Winnington-Ball
Don't lie, that was taught to you by your betters in the Infantry and Armour branches.

dang, Gunner, for a second there I thought he was going to say Navy!

[sapper740]

Originally posted by Gunner
As it says on the Peace Arch between Canada and the USA.

Gunners and Sappers were born from the Board of Ordnance and definitely share many bonds- big booms, St Barbara, Ubique!, the ability to read and write and a love for big forts with "biguns" in 'em.

One small observation: a Gun/Skyguard Section was two guns (GDF 005 twin 35mm Oerlikons) and a radar trailer (Skyguard system). Two Sections made a Troop and two Troops made a Battery. Imagine THAT noise level!

Mike

Great bunch of guys manning the Skyguard. When my duties allowed I popped over for a tour. The young bucks were a little keen, they opened up on me with their C9 until their Master Bombardier told them that the exercise hadn't started yet and the Engineers were not yet Opfor. I think they were just itching to make some noise. He proudly showed me how the guns worked, the auto-reload, and the radar. He let me play with the controls for a bit. The guns can be fired automatically or manually. I was really impressed with the power and clarity of the CCTV images on the screen, too bad there weren't any bathing beauties down by the ocean! It's too bad I can't remember his name, we ended up buying each other a lot of shooters at the local bar after EndEx. I've never 'fessed up to this before, but the puddle of vomit on the stairs to the Royal Newfoundland Regiment's HQ was mine!
I remember getting a huge laugh while getting debriefed for an A.A.R. The Engineers built a large tent city at Camp Indian Head for over 1,000 soldiers. For some reason, just before the Exercise started large quantities of Navy types showed up, I guess they wanted to pretend they were ground pounders for a day. Many of the sailors were young females who occupied a lot of the time of the younger Engineers in my unit. In fact, some of the guys weren't getting much well needed sleep at night, if you know what I mean. During the debriefing, I was asked by a Petty Officer how it went having so many sailors around. Without blinking an eyelid, I quickly responded that things ran a whole lot smoother before the camp got covered in Seamen!

CHIMO!

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

Originally posted by sapper740
dang, Gunner, for a second there I thought he was going to say Navy!

I was just getting set to respond appropriately to this when I read your following post, Derek. I must confess I owe ya a cold one for that 'Without blinking an eyelid' closing!

Even Engineers can amaze and confound from time to time, surprising as it may seem.

[sapper740]

Originally posted by Geoff Winnington-Ball
I was just getting set to respond appropriately to this when I read your following post, Derek. I must confess I owe ya a cold one for that 'Without blinking an eyelid' closing!

Even Engineers can amaze and confound from time to time, surprising as it may seem.

Yah, I still have a good laugh now and then over that one. I paid the price though. The Petty Officer was a little upset and later I heard through the grapevine that he had complained to the camp's RSM about my comments. The RSM tried to appear sympathetic, but really had nothing to charge me with and he considered the matter dropped. Anyway, the exercise ended, we tore down the camp and loaded up the trucks. There wasn't room in the vehicles for all the Engineers and Logistics staff so we were told that some of us were to stay behind as drivers for the various ILTISs, LSVWs, MLs, and HLs, the rest could fly back to Greenwood. Of course, I was chosen to remain behind as a driver. "There's my punishment, I thought." Oh well, no big deal, I might even enjoy driving across The Rock and Cape Breton. It was early July, the weather was pleasant, and this afforded an excellent opportunity to enjoy a part of Canada that I had never seen before. Things weren't so bad. Vehicle driver's also got rooms on the ferry for the overnight trip from Port aux Basque to North Sydney while everyone else had to make do sleeping on a couch in one of the lounges. The morning of the convoy back arrived. I was informed that I was to drive one of the Packet Commander's Iltis. I was given the key, (if that's what you can call it) and told to check out the vehicle, and stand by for the packet commander and our departure time. I did and soon it was near our time slot. I was sitting in the Iltis enjoying the early morning sunshine when the passenger door opened and in jumped, yes you guessed it, the Petty Officer. Well, he wore me out the whole way back. I was told how I should respect the "Senior Service" and blah, blah, blah. Next time I'll think twice before being a smart-ass!

[Gunner]

Where the army went to drink and watch the navy teach the airforce how to read and write!

Now Jiff: You know that the Right of the Line was based on literacy! Hence the Gentlemen (and now lady) cadets of RMC, The Royal Canadian Horse Artillery, The Cavalry, The Royal Canadian Artillery... the Engineers... and some where down there on the left; the infantry!

If Right of the Line was given for ability to get covered in mud and blood, dig trenches really fast, carry more per man than a mule and "close with and destroy the enemy" then youse infanteers might get a tan on your right sides, however...!

ANYWAY... the CMPs never much cared who was riding in 'em as long as they got their daily dose of first, halt and last parades and unlimited fuel to drink!

Mike

[Hanno Spoelstra]

OK, let's get back to the subject with this picture.

[Andrew Sherriff]

Note the rather flash mobile grandstand

[wim sikkelbein]

Infantrymen of the Stormont, Dundas and Glengarry Highlanders crossing the Orne River on a Bailey bridge built by the Royal Canadian Engineers (R.C.E.) en route to Caen, France, 18 July 1944

PA-162434

[Phil Waterman]

Originally posted by Andrew Sherriff
Note the rather flash mobile grandstand

Interesting photo any idea where it was taken? From the tires and the color would look to be North Africa, but the uniforms look wrong? CMPs being use as mobile grandstands sure explains why all CMPs seem to have concave roofs.

Cheers Phil

[Andrew Sherriff]

Hi Phil photo was labelled as north africa, the grille on the vehicle beside looks like a chevy 30cwt 2wd aside from that no other info sorry

[Keith Webb]

Originally posted by Andrew Sherriff
Hi Phil photo was labelled as north africa, the grille on the vehicle beside looks like a chevy 30cwt 2wd aside from that no other info sorry

Also the fern leaf on the Tac sign would make them N.Z. wouldn't it?

[sapper740]

Here's a great shot of a RAF BD Flight taken, presumably after the V1 was defused. In the background is what appears to be a Bedford QL if I'm not mistaken.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
Is that a Chev in the background? Would be the first time a Ford is pulling a Chev!

Although not in the background, this is a picture from the same sequence.

Best of all, it proves it is a Ford pulling a Chev!

H.

[Alex Blair (RIP)]

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
Best of all, it proves it is a Ford pulling a Chev!

Hanno

You got it all wrong...
The Chevvy was pushing that Ford carrier with the cable..