Books photos about executed POWS June 1944

[Mark W. Tonner]

Snowtractor;

Thought you might like to read the following, different extracts from various sources regarding "B" Coy, 6 June 1944.

From "A History of The Royal Winnipeg Rifles":

0749 Touchdown Despite the air support which failed to materialize and the spotty Royal Navy bombardment, the rockets falling short and the DDs and AVRE's being late the Regiment hit the beach. C Company of the 1st Canadian Scottish (under the Regiment's command) landed at the junction of "Mike and Love". They quickly headed towards the beach defences and the Chateau Vaux.

D Company (Maj L. Fulton) with a pioneer section landed to the left of "Mike Green". B Company (Capt P. Gower) with No. 15 Platoon and 2 sections of the 6 Field Company RCE landed at "Mike Red" - all within seven minutes of one another - records the War Diary.

As the doors were lowered, these companies advanced through a hail of bullets. Spandus and German rifle spat furiously at the invaders. During the run-in some assault craft were swamped on the reefs which abounded in front of Courseulles. Thoroughly submerged and weighted down by extra ammunition, Capt. Gower virtually walked under the water until he reached the beach. Many others were in the same situation. The landing had taken place at high tide.

Rushing the enemy, B Company encountered heavy enemy fire. Over 15 machine guns and five concrete emplacements were encountered by the Battalion on the Courseulles beach. Some of the enemy positions were quickly taken, while others had to be fought over in hand-to-hand struggle.

1400 Banville The remnants of B Company had reported - only Capt. Gower and 26 other ranks remained unscathed. They had taken and destroyed three casements and 12 machine-gun nests.

1800 Creully With evening fast approaching, the Battalion set about digging in just south of Creully. 5 officers and 78 other ranks arrived from the reinforcement unit that evening - all were posted to B Company.

From "The Victory Campaign" (Vol III, Official History of the Canadian Army in the Second World War):

The battalion diary remarked grimly, "The bombardment having failed to kill a single German or silence one weapon, these companies had to storm their positions cold" - and did so without hesitation." "B" Company met heavy machine-gun, shell and mortar fire beginning when the L.C.A.s were 700 yards from the beach. This continued until touch-down, and as the men leaped from the craft many were hit "while still chest high in water." But the Little Black Devils were not to be denied.

Note: "B" Company would have had a landing strength of Approx 127 (+ or -)

Cheers

[Mark W. Tonner]

Snowtractor;

Attached picture is of Landing Craft Assault (LCAs) heading into the beach carrying members of the Royal Winnipeg Rifles, 6 June 1944.

Cheers

[Snowtractor]

Mark,
certainly jives with the letter Ralph's/my family received. Ralph was hit in the water and when one of his sectin tried to sto and help he waved them forward. Later another soldier that was shot through both legs dragged him ashore where he died of his wounds later in the day.
ANd thanks again for all the digging, you must be tenacious enough to finish the New York times satuday crossword too. :-)
Sean

[Mark W. Tonner]

Sean;

I never have time to read a paper on Saturday

Cheers

[Mark W. Tonner]

The Memorial Plaque as it appears today at Audrieu, the name of Carman's Uncle, Rifleman Smith, E., is 5th from the bottom, right hand column, under the Royal Winnipeg Rifles.

Hosti Acie Nominati

MARK: Thank you for posting the image of the memorial. I'm glad to see it in here. Glad my
Uncles name is on it, and that some who were there
but not part of the Winnipegs, were also included.

Finally received that copy of the book, Conduct Unbecoming. My Uncle and names of 156 men are listed at the beginning of the book.,including
a `mention' of 10 unknown/unnamed men. The story about my Uncles group specifically starts on page 90, where Rifleman, SMITH, E, is mentioned. I still haven't been able to read more tha 2 pages, but will read the whole book.

There is (I hope I remembered the `right' names Mark:

HODGE, Frederick E.
and
FULLER, Austin. R.
named in that list at the beginning of the book.

There are certainly a few surnames from back home
and if the other 2 Smith's mentioned were from ``back home' area, then they're probably related to my family as well. I'd have to check. I had an uncle named Frederick Smith (passed away in a fire, not the WW2, but I think he did serve) and distant relative (passed away) named Richard Smith. Smith is very common tho as we all know.

SNOWTRACTOR: I found a SMITH FALLS, but its in Ontario, not Manitoba. Found nothing listed in the Atlas with the Smith name.

Thanks again for all the postings that are educating me I just have to `remember' everything somehow!

Take care All.

[Mark W. Tonner]

Snowtractor;

Came across this, thought you'd want to see it, a sketch of the Memorial to the soldiers of the Royal Winnipeg Rifles on the beach at Courcelles-sur-Mer, placed there by the Regiment on 6 June 1964.

Cheers

Hi Everybody.

MARK: I have a feeling that you probably have a copy of `Conduct Unbecoming' but if you don't, those mens names you mentioned before are written about in the chapter before the one that tells about my Uncle and the men he was murdered with:
-------------------------------------
Conduct Unbecoming: The Story of the Murders of Canadian Prisoners of War in Normandy,
Written by: Howard Margolian,
published by: University of Toronto Press Inc.1998

Capter 8, THE BREMMER MURDERS,
Pages 82-83-84 murders of:

Major Hodge, Royal Winnipeg Rifles,
Lance Corporal Austin Fuller,RoyalWinnipegRifles and
Private Frederick Smith, Queens Own Rifles

I didn't read that chapter farther yet but
scanned enough to say there were more murders
in that chapter. I can only read a little at a a time...

Now I understand your question about Major Hodge and L C Fuller...being with my Uncle because Private Frederick Smith had the same surname as my Uncle. We are not having any doubts now...right?!

at the very beginning of the book is a page
listing the mens names. 146 names PLUS `and ten known only to God'. I'm going to type up that list of names and post it in here for everyone to see.

Nite.

[Mark W. Tonner]

Carman;

Private Frederick Smith, QOR was transferred from the Queen's Own Rifles to the Royal Winnipeg Rifles prior to 6 June 1944.
At the time of his death he was Rifleman Frederick Smith, Royal Winnipeg Rifles.

No I do not have a copy of "Conduct Unbecoming" and no I do not have any doubts about your Uncle. Both Rifleman Smith, E. and Rifleman Smith, F. appear on the Roll of Honour of the Royal Winnipeg Rifles and also on the Audrieu Memorial Plaque.

Cheers

Hi Mark: Thanks for the info about Frederick Smith

And by the way...I ain't good with controlling those d*mned little faces yet...altho the whole last post I did was a `serious tone'... I meant the comment about being `sure yet?' as a sort of good-hearted cheekiness. Sorry :-)

CONDUCT UNBECOMING: If you want me to look up some info in it for you, just say the word Mark, Okay?!
(SAME TO ANYONE ELSE...just ask me)
Reminder..I only have it til the 26th. At some point down the road when I'm flush enough I'll buy a copy tho.

take care...C

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

Available at Amazon.ca for $24.47

[Mark W. Tonner]

Hi Carman;

I actually have quite a bit of information regarding the death of Rfn Frederick Smith along with 18 other members of the Rifles on the grounds of the Chateau de Audrieu, 8 June 1944 and on the other deaths of Canadian POWs in Normandy.

Unfortunately, some of my material is outdated, since originally, your Uncle was posted Killed in Action, 8 June 1944, at Putot-en-Bessin and not as one of the POWs who were murdered. This information as only come to light within the last few years and I think, Conduct Unbecoming, is the only publication to date, in print, that contains the corrected information regarding the details of your Uncle's death.

Geoff: Thanks for the post regarding the book.

Cheers

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

Originally posted by Geoff Winnington-Ball
Good lord, just look at those two serial numbers.... barely 1400 apart and in the same militia district. They must have joined within a day or so of one another, and very probably have trained together throughout.

Both Regimental Numbers (block 40501 to 42999) are assigned to the RWR... which means both joined the Regiment directly. What I don't know is how many recruiting offices the RWR had, and/or whether they maintained separate militia companies in various locations (and if so, in which order were the numbers allotted), but this definitely confirms that Spencer and Smith were in it together almost from the beginning. There's almost no question they knew each other, at least until permanent assignment within the Regiment.

Talk about coincidence.... but at least, almost 60 years' on, HERE they shall be remembered.

GEOFF: thanks for your postings!!!! I hope you find your copy of `Conduct Unbecoming'. Its a pretty amazing and important book. Wow. My family had origninally been told that he was KIA...then that was switched to POW/MIA...then `They found him' said my Mom. I may have also heard from my family that he had been `executed', but certainly not the who, where, and how. I'm so glad to get real answers now. I wish my grandparents, Mom and his other siblings who are no longer here, could know how so many people cared, and will never stop caring about Uncle Eddie...and all the others from `back home'.

I hope my little part in passing on some of the history helps keep the memories alive.

SEAN: I would love to hear that your Uncle and Mine were `buds' and that they shared a lot of laughs and a lot of closeness.

I'm going to see what I can find out about whether they trained together or not, and where. I'll tell you all what/when I find out.

Hi Everyone. I've checked several times for possible spelling errors and to make sure I missed no mans name. If anyone spots any errors...please let me know asap so I can edit/fix it `yesterday'. Thank you...Carman


_---------------------------------------

FROM the BOOK:
`Conduct Unbecoming: The Story of the Murder
of Canadian Prisoners of War in Normandy.
BY: Howard Margolian
Copyright: University of Toronto Press Incorporated 1998.



Adams, William C.
Anderson, H. E.
Angel, Harold S.
Arsenault, Joseph F.
Arsenault, Joseph R.
Bailey, Harold W.
Barker, Reginald D.
Baskerville, Ernest C.
Beaudoin, Oscar J.
Bebee, Charles W.
Bellefontaine, Oswald J.
Benner, George A.
Beresford, William
Birston, Hilliard J. H.
Bishoff, Emmanuel
Bolt, James E.
Booth, Walter J.
Borne, Cecil M.
Bowes, Arnold D.
Bradley, Ernest W.
Brown, George Andrew
Brown, Lorne
Brown, Walter Leslie
Bullock, Paul
Burnett, Donald J.
Campbell, John R.
Charron, Albert A.
Chartrand, Lawrence
Chartrand, Louis
Cook, Etsel J.
Cranfield, Ernest W.
Cresswell, Sidney J.
Crowe, Ivan L.
Culleton, Stewart
Daniels, Walter
Davidson, Thomas R.
Doucette, Charles
Doherty, Walter M.
Dumont, John D.
Fagnan, Anthony A.
Ferguson, William S.
Findlay, Robert M.
Firman, Roger J.
Fleet, Lambert A.
Fontaine, George
Forbes, J.
Freeman, Lant
Fuller, Austen R.
Gilbank, Ernest N.
Gill, George V.
Gold, David S.
Gosse, Silby
Grant, Thomas J. D.
Guiboche, Lawrence R.
Gurney, Robert J.
Hancock, Arthur R. H.
Hargreaves, Jeffrey D.
Harkness, Alvin J. J.
Harper, Robert J.
Harrison, Francis D.
Henry, Thomas H.
Hill, John W.
Hodge, Frederick E.
Holness, Frederick W. G.
Horton, Charles A.
Ionel, John
Izzard, William L.
Jones, Henry C.
Julian, Anthony
Keeping, Reginald
Kines, Clare D.
Kyle, James F.
Labrecque, Herve A.
Lawrence, Kenneth S.
Leclaire, Joseph A. M.
Lefort, Elmer J.
Lewis, Gordon J.
Lockhead, Roger
Louks, William D. C.
Lychowich, John L.
Macdonald, Charles J.
MacDonald, Hugh A.
MacIntyre, Joseph F.
MacKinnon, James W.
MacLeod, Angus M.
MacRae, Roderick R.
Marych, Frederick
McGinnis, William J.
McIntosh, James D.
McKeil, Hollis L.
McKinnon, William L.
McLaughlan, Thomas C.
McNaughton, George R.
Meakin, Frank V.
Meakin, George E.
Metcalfe, John
Millar, George E.
Moloney, David T.
Mont, Thomas E.
Moore, Raymond
Morin, Norman J.
Morrison, Wesley K.
Moss, James A.
Muntion, George
Murray, John B.
Mutch, Robert
Nichol, William
O’Leary, Gerard J.
Orford, Douglas S.
Ostir, Frank
Owens, Allan R.
Parisian, Percy
Perry, Clayton G.
Peterson, Alfred M.
Philip, Harold G.
Poho, William
Pollard, George G.
Povol, Ervin
Preston, Lee I.
Reid, James A.
Reynolds, Henry E.
Riggs, Cecil
Rodgers, Henry
Ryckman, Frank
Sawatsky, John
Scott, Robert
Scriven, Gilbert H.
Sigurdson, Kjartan
Silverberg, Frank
Simmons, William E.
Smith, Edward
Smith, Frederick
Smith, Richard G.
Smuck, Harry L.
Slywchuk, Steve
Sutton, Lawrence F.
Taylor, James A.
Thomas, William D.
Thompson, John A.
Tobin, Douglas V.
Vickery, Nelson J.
Webster, James S.
Willet, Gerald L.
Williams, Fred
Williams, James P.
Windsor, Thomas A. L.
and ten but known to God

LEST WE FORGET

---------------------------------------------------------

[Michael Dorosh]

I've read Conduct Unbecoming - an amazing book.

There is a memorial here in Alberta at a campground belonging to the Sarcee Indian tribe dedicated to a rifleman in the Royal Winnipeg Rifles killed in Normandy. It is a simple plaque and stone, well off the beaten path. I've always wondered about the soldier memorialized there - or if he was friends with the murdered POWs.

Mark - the interesting thing about the RWR photo you posted is that the soldier with the RWR cap badge is actually wearing a British GS bonnet rather than a Canadian beret (sorry, don't mean to trivialize the conversation, but that has always stood out about that photo).

Will look forward to reading more about this important chapter of Canadian history.

Insomnia is not so bad when I can do
something educational rather than toss
and turn This site is highly educational
for sure!

I'm really interested in knowing if you
recall the name of that man from the
Royal Winnipeg Rifles? The man who the
memorial is for. The site sounds very
private and very nice.

As for Conduct Unbecoming, I still
haven't been able to `sit with it'
It's much too real, and close to home,
(my Uncle) makes it much more so.
The truth of the matter is, is that I
don't fully comprehend the total
signifigance yet...am just learning
how `big'! I'll get thru the book.

When I was really young I
read a book written by a holocaust
survivor..probably the `Diary of Anne Frank'
...I read every book by survivors that I could
lay my hands on after that. The cruelties
inflicted on people were incredible.

I bumped into a friend of mine the other day
and we got to talking about my Uncle a bit...
then h told me how `forgotten' the Russian
peoples experiences had been...he told me that they'd been made to stand in long rows while
the Nazis just shot them down the line.
And so on. The stories are never ending and
the `atrocities' were just so unbelievable.

I've been in your `site' I'm sure
always searching...oiy...give an insomniac
hermit an internet connection and a desire to learn
and whaddayah got??? Well...well spent wake time!
No such thingas `wasted time' in this site!!!

I've been really curious about the hats/caps/berets I see... who wears what???
:

I noticed Robert Munroe Findlay's name on the list. Robert was a Toronto boy who was Pipe Major of our Cadet Pipe Band early in the war. His brother Jim who was a 48th Highlander passed away last Fall. There is a small memorial to Robert in the Cadet Section of the 48th Highlanders of Canada Regimental Museum.

I noticed Robert Munroe Findlay's name on the list.
Robert was a Toronto boy who was Pipe Major of our
Cadet Pipe Band early in the war. His brother Jim who
was a 48th Highlander passed away last Fall. There
is a small memorial to Robert in the Cadet Section of
the 48th Highlanders of Canada Regimental Museum.
=================================

Hi Art.

It's so good to learn about the Memorials
in Canada, placed by family and/or others.

I haven't been able to find out yet if
there is a private family memorial for
my uncle. I can't imagine why not, if there
isn't.

Hi Art.

Private Robert Findlay was with the group
of Royal Winnipeg Rifles that my
Uncle Edward Smith was with. They are both
mentioned in Chapter 9, `The Mohnke Murders'
page 90, of `Conduct Unbecoming.' Maybe Robert
and Edward (Eddie to all back home)were friends.

ART: Do you want more information from that chapter? I'll be glad to look for you and send
it to you. Just say the word. Carman

Thanks Carman I appreciate the offer but I have a birthday coming up next month and I have been dropping enough hints that I am sure that one of the kids will buy it for me.

Hi Art...

Gee...maybe you and I will both receive
the book for our birthdays???????????????


`...'TENTION!!!!'

Mines April 11...I'll hit the big 49,
old enuf for menopause and the mental-pause
that goes with it...

So Roberts nickname was `RED'...a redhead???

Take care and don't take any...`you know'!...Carman

Carman, mine is the next day the 12th and I haven't seen 49 for a long time, make that a long long time. Robert was a good looking lad and like a typical red head he was fair skinned. I'll try and make arrangements for you to get a copy of newspaper item we have on him.

Cheers

Art

GEOFF.....I'm KEEPING MY FINGERS CROSSED and
HOPING SOMEONE IS ABLE TO HELP IMMEDIATELY!!!
========================================

ART: April 12....hmmm.

`April is the cruelest month...
but it sure brings some wonderful
souls, young, medium and old

I'd love a copy of the clipping
if possible. My Uncle was probably
blue-eyed and fair skinned... must be
all the English and Scottish genes.
-------------------------------------

Now: here is a LIST:
LIST OF THE 40 MEN WITH MY UNCLE on JUNE 8.
5 of those men survived it says.
-------------------------------------------------------
Here are the exact words exerpted from
Conduct Unbecoming, by Howard Margolian
copyright 1998:

...page 90:
...a smaller group, totalling forty prisoners -

Lieutenant William Ferguson
Sargeant James Reid
Corporals,
George Brown
Roger Firman
Clare Kines
James Kyle
Hector McLean and
Robert Scott
Lance Corporals,
Stewart Culleton and
John Hill and
Privates,
Walter Booth
Ernest Bradley
Walter Daniels
Arthur Desjarlais
Gordon Ferris
Robert Findlay
Lant Freeman
Lawrence Guiboche
Charles Horton
Henry Jones
Elmer Lefort
Gordon Lewis
John MacDougal
Angus MacLeod
Frederick Marych
Wesley Morrison
Percy Parisian
Alfred Peterson
Frank Ryckman
Kjartan Sigurdson
Edward Smith and
John Thompson
all of the Royal Winnipeg Rifles and

Private
Richard Smith of the Queens Own Rifles
Lieutenant
Reginald Barker,
Sargeant
William Beresford, and
Gunners
Hilliard Birston
Weldon Clark
Thomas Grant, and
Alvin Harkness
of the 3rd Canadian Anti-Tank Regiment, and

Private
Donald Burnett of the Cameron Highlanders of Ottawa

PAGE 93:

...of the forty prisoners who found themselves in the Germans’
gunsights on that fateful night of 8 June, only five-

Corporal MacLean, and Privates Ferris, MacDougal, and
Desjarlais of the Royal Winnipeg Rifles, along with
Gunner Clark of the 3rd Anti-Tank Regiment -
lived to tell about it.

---------------------

the book goes on to say the surviving five men were recaptured
almost immediately by other German units in the area and were held
as POWS for months it appears....so it was months before they were
able to `tell’ everyone what happened.

The German Units involved in the massacre of my Uncle and the
other men were never `identified’ it appears. So there was no
justice done for these particular men. Wilhelm Mohnke was
the one who ordered the unjustified murders. Not enuf evidence
or witness info to do anything I guess.

I read that he (Wilhelm Monke) lived long...died not too long ago.

[Snowtractor]

Hi Carmen
I really don't know much about Ralph as I just learned he existed 2 years ago. I know he was in a long time before he saw action, Dday and while he was away he had a daughter that he never saw. She lives in Ontario incidentally. From the few letters I have got copies of , the mail was intermittent and he quite often did not get it, and he only found out his wife was pregnant when it arrived with the birth notice. Apparently his troop thought he had snapped for he jumped up and started yelling and running around the barracks in joy. He was very happy about his baby girl.
Incidentally his families home was in Morden Manitoba, where the Spencer homestead still exists in the family.
And Geoff , it is curious they are so close and 2 years apart in enrollment. Ralph was in England when Edward signed up. Though, both in Bcoy, if I read this right and both on assault on Dday. Must have known each other at least casually. Ralph would've been the guy wearing green.
Sean

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

Originally posted by Snowtractor
And Geoff , it is curious they are so close and 2 years apart in enrollment. Ralph was in England when Edward signed up. Though, both in Bcoy, if I read this right and both on assault on Dday. Must have known each other at least casually. Ralph would've been the guy wearing green.

Unlikely it would have been two years, Sean, more like a few months. Their service records would verify, though, and tell us what courses they went on, when. Let's fetch them and compare, shall we?

Geoff

What a bitter-sweet story about Ralph's
learning about his daughter from conception
to birth in one second! His daughter must
cherish knowing how happy he was!

QUESTION: How did you figure out that our
Uncles enlisted two years apart? (I still
don't know when my Uncle enlisted??? I just mailed
off a request for his records (and a copy
of any ID Photo if possible)a couple of
days ago. I haven't a clue as to how long
I'll have to wait for them. It might be a big
delay because I think I was supposed to include
a payment)

My grandparents homestead burned down many years ago...1945, Beaconia/Balsam Bay area. My grandfather (Edwards father) and I believe my grannies father, died together in that fire. Two of their houses burnt to the ground, then another fire years later destroyed my Grannies little house, destroying many important things.

I have this vague recollection of a WHITE CROSS, cloth? Paper? Gold lettering? Gold something? that was given to my grandmother regards Uncle Eddie. My memry really is not clear.

So my Uncles name...never came up? :-)

Take care...C

[Michael Dorosh]

I believe a Silver Cross is given to mothers whose sons have fallen in action.

[Snowtractor]

Hi Carmen
I just had the notion Edward enlisted in 1942, must have misread. By the way contact the Manitoba Government and ask about the naming of a location after Edward, I 'll bet there is one.
And Geoff, how does one go about getting Ralph's records?
Sean

Hi Sean.

I sent my request for record to the
National Archives. Have misplaced the address
but go to

www.archives.ca

I think it was under records and collections. There are addresses and directions and who to write to/send to. Even a form you can download
to fill out. I didn't enclose apayment, and I'm not sure if I was supposed to. I think they only want $5 for only the `official request thru the Privacy act. My `unofficial request, I hope, means that I wasn't supposed to give a payment.

They don't have a toll-free number for Ottawa,
(anymore!)but do have numbers if you're into paying for the call.

WHO/WHICH aspect of Gov't do I enquire to about Uncle Eddie???

Take care...Carman (very tired)