Vehicles used by Dutch Prinses Irene Brigade

[Alex van de Wetering]

Interesting picture Hanno. That seems to be one of the British 3rd Infantry Division LCT's that landed at Sword beach.

[25pdrfg]

Thanks for the posts has anyone else got any of the No5 bodys in service That one was only 19 out on my truck service number.

[Rogier Peeters]

Another piece of the Artillery Tractor puzzle:
http://www.haagsebeeldbank.nl/zoeken...eld/bevrijding

Rier view of a FAT, census number H5558308. I thought that solved it, but then I read this:

"H 5558176 - 5558375 / SM 2546 / Tractor 4x4 F.A. / C291Q / F-GT

However HISTORIC MILITARY VEHICLES DIRECTORY P. 52 has a photo of a Chevrolet FAT marked up as ‘H5558307’!"

(see: http://www.btinternet.com/~gmhistorian/fordlist.htm )

Any thoughts?

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Rogier Peeters

Another piece of the Artillery Tractor puzzle:
http://www.haagsebeeldbank.nl/zoeken...eld/bevrijding

Rier view of a FAT, census number H5558308. I thought that solved it, but then I read this:

"H 5558176 - 5558375 / SM 2546 / Tractor 4x4 F.A. / C291Q / F-GT

However HISTORIC MILITARY VEHICLES DIRECTORY P. 52 has a photo of a Chevrolet FAT marked up as ‘H5558307’!"

(see: http://www.btinternet.com/~gmhistorian/fordlist.htm )

Any thoughts?

Rogier,

Nice find and no worries. The picture David refers to is actually depicting a restored Chevrolet CGT which had a known PIB census number off a Ford FGT applied. I think I pointed this out before, must have been on the old forum.

Hanno

860150.JPG
Ref: http://www.haagsebeeld
bank.nl/hga:col1:dat327858


Edited to add larger scan:
HGA001300551_resized.jpg
Source: https://haagsgemeentearchief.nl/medi...0-b85fd4c4c3b6

[Rogier Peeters]

Thanks for the clarification Hanno, so we are indeed dealing with a Ford in the Haags archief foto?

I'm on the search for more pics now and found this. It's a vehicle of the Dutch troops as well. Any thoughts on the vehicle type would be appreciated.

Source: http://www.haagsebeeldbank.nl/hga:col1:dat298428

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Rogier Peeters

Thanks for the clarification Hanno, so we are indeed dealing with a Ford in the Haags archief foto?

From this angle I cannot see features to identify it as a Ford or Chevrolet. But based on the known census number range, it is a Ford FGT.

I'm on the search for more pics now and found this. It's a vehicle of the Dutch troops as well. Any thoughts on the vehicle type would be appreciated.

Great find! It looks like a Standard Utility Truck or "Tilly". See the attached pic (source: http://www.standardmotorclub.org.uk/...ures/tilly.htm)

Wheels_Wings_Tillys_003.jpg

[chrisgrove]

Originally Posted by Rogier Peeters

Thanks for the clarification Hanno, so we are indeed dealing with a Ford in the Haags archief foto?

I'm on the search for more pics now and found this. It's a vehicle of the Dutch troops as well. Any thoughts on the vehicle type would be appreciated.

Source: http://www.haagsebeeldbank.nl/hga:col1:dat298428

This Standard Utility looks to me to be carrying the sign of the Czech Brigade (lion on blue shield with red cross). Trouble is, with pics of poor resolution, that the Dutch (PIB), Belgian and Czech Brigades all carried a reasonably similar lion (at least to my non-heraldicly trained eyes), and it is quite hard to tell them apart.

However, one of the items on this thread has already remarked that the AOS number 120 does not seem to be recorded as having been issued to anyone!

Aren't these challenges interesting?

Chris

[Rogier Peeters]

Thank you very much for your thoughts.

For comparison I've added the Dutch lion emblem as used by the PIB and the emblem of the Bevelhebber van de Nederlandse Strijdkrachten.

For the emblem of the Czech brigade see link. The Czech brigade seems to have used two-digit AOS numbers and was not in the Hague at the time the photo was taken.

[Peter Hommes]

What ever make they are (Which of cause if is of interest) the pictures are great to see thanks Hanno, We still have to make an appointment for the battles dresses.

Peter
http://www.milmarket.org

[Peter Hommes]

two picture of something else they used too.

Schermafbeelding 2013-01-20 om 12.10.00.jpg Schermafbeelding 2013-01-20 om 12.10.29.png

Peter
http://www.milmarket.org

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Guy Armoured Car in service with the Dutch Princess Irene Brigade. Somewhere in England, 1941.

And oh, the guy in the turret is Saint Nicolas and his mate.

15195986_576677805852523_659871646333096259_o.jpg

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Another picture of a Bedford MW during the liberation of The Hague:

31960758_2246824455358456_1804170161658265600_o.jpg

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Not vehicles, but soldiers. There is a Canadian connection though, as this picture shows Prinses Irene Brigade troops marching during their training in Stratford, Ontario, in February 1941.


51102548_1795802143858812_2163371810064695296_o.jpg 51552745_1795802283858798_7072664337294295040_o.jpg 50868902_1795802410525452_5588403861195849728_o.jpg

[chrisgrove]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Guy Armoured Car in service with the Dutch Princess Irene Brigade. Somewhere in England, 1941.

And oh, the guy in the turret is Saint Nicolas and his mate.

Attachment 86779

Nice to see Zwarte Piet again. He seems to have become a fraction unfashionable!
Chris

[Tony Smith]

Originally Posted by chrisgrove

Nice to see Zwarte Piet again. He seems to have become a fraction unfashionable!
Chris

Is the Driver and person walking behind in similar attire?

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by chrisgrove

Nice to see Zwarte Piet again. He seems to have become a fraction unfashionable!

Well yes, let's say that back in those days it wasn't objectionable to dress up like that.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Alex van de Wetering

Interesting picture Hanno. That seems to be one of the British 3rd Infantry Division LCT's that landed at Sword beach.

Hi Alex,

If it does show the Prinses Irene Brigade coming ashore, it would mean they had Bedford MW's on strength. As far as I know the Brigade was equipped with Fordson 15-cwt trucks. Do you know if they had Bedford 15-cwt trucks also?

Thanks,
Hanno

[Alex van de Wetering]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

If it does show the Prinses Irene Brigade coming ashore, it would mean they had Bedford MW's on strength. As far as I know the Brigade was equipped with Fordson 15-cwt trucks. Do you know if they had Bedford 15-cwt trucks also?

Hanno, I don't know for sure if they had Bedford MW's in service. Some pictures show 15cwt GS trucks from the rear and make if hard to determine if they are Fordsons, Bedfords or even Morris Commercial. Just like you I thought they had Fordson WOT2's (and a WOT3 which is shown on one of the pictures in the national archive). But, they did have Beford QL's as well, so logistically wise, it wouldn't be too strange to have some Bedford MW's on strength. Below is picture from the National Archives, which shows a 15cwt, supposedly from the Irene Brigade......Can anyone ID the truck....maybe the rear axle?

source: http://beeldbank.nationaalarchief.nl/

Alex

338509[1]B.jpg

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Alex van de Wetering

Can anyone ID the truck

Do I see a split rear axle differential? From this grainy picture I would not wager to ID a vehicle. But the tow hook is the typical British one, leaving Fordson, Morris-Commercial or Bedford to choose from . . .

I´m sure one of the MLU members has a census listing from which one will be able to deduct what type of truck Z4846358 was.

On the TWENOT forum, I read the Dutch were allocated the census number block 1283563 to 1288562. However, these must have been supposed to be allocated to their own vehicles. I´m pretty sure those supplied by the British War Department were meant not to be renumbered.

H.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Going slightly off topic, but interesting pic. Reportedly showing Bedford MW from Prinses Irene Brigade coming ashore in Normandy (via KTR list).

The Nationaal Archief contains the same picture with the same caption:

Beschrijving: Koninklijke Nederlandse Brigade Prinses Irene. Landing in Normandië
Datum: augustus 1944
Trefwoorden: tweede wereldoorlog|leger|militairen|invasies, Prinses Irene Brigade, Frankrijk|Normandië
Collectie: Collectie Anefo / Londen
Fotograaf: RVD
Fotonummer: 934-9670

NL-HaNA_2.24.01.03_0_934-9670.jpg

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

On the TWENOT forum, I read the Dutch were allocated the census number block 1283563 to 1288562. However, these must have been supposed to be allocated to their own vehicles. I´m pretty sure those supplied by the British War Department were meant not to be renumbered.

Fordson 7V L1284657 was clearly allocated a number from this block (source: www.arnhemsoorlogsmuseum.com)

[Rich Payne]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Do I see a split rear axle differential? From this grainy picture I would not wager to ID a vehicle. But the tow hook is the typical British one, leaving Fordson, Morris-Commercial or Bedford to choose from . . .

I´m sure one of the MLU members has a census listing from which one will be able to deduct what type of truck Z4846358 was.

Just noticed that no one has answered this.

Z4844001 - Z4847000 - Ford - Truck 15cwt 4x2 G/S

Rich

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Rich Payne

Just noticed that no one has answered this.

Z4844001 - Z4847000 - Ford - Truck 15cwt 4x2 G/S

Thanks Rich!

Interestingly, the picture shows a Fordson, but the census number range was allocated to Ford trucks

H.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

On the TWENOT forum, I read the Dutch were allocated the census number block 1283563 to 1288562.

Here's an example of a Chevrolet PAG-trekker, one of reportedly only two which were shipped to the UK by retreating Dutch troops (via Dunkirk, Brest?).
It has been assigned "L1284684" and is shown while use in training in the UK in 1940. (Surely the "L" is a mistake, a utility vehicle / light truck like this should have been assigned either an "M" or "Z".)

Ref: The Great DAF PAG-trekker thread!, picture source: http://www.prinsesirenebrigade.nl/

oefening_Engeland_1940_pagtrekker.jpg

[Rich Payne]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

It has been assigned "L1284648" and is shown while use in training in the UK in 1940. (Surely the "L" is a mistake, a utility vehicle / light truck like this should have been assigned either an "M" or "Z".)

Perhaps the vehicle still had a luggage compartment full of peanut butter when it was put on the weighbridge and this brought it above the 1 ton mark ?

I have had a quick flick through the re-printed Chilwell census lists and can see no trace of 'Fordson'. It looks as if for contract purposes, the supplier was always Ford.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Rich Payne

Perhaps the vehicle still had a luggage compartment full of peanut butter when it was put on the weighbridge and this brought it above the 1 ton mark ?

Nah, must 'ave been Gouda cheese!

I have had a quick flick through the re-printed Chilwell census lists and can see no trace of 'Fordson'. It looks as if for contract purposes, the supplier was always Ford.

Check!

Thanks,
Hanno

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Alex van de Wetering

Below is picture from the National Archives, which shows a 15cwt, supposedly from the Irene Brigade......Can anyone ID the truck....maybe the rear axle?

Here's a better picture of Z4846358 from the new NIOD BeeldbankWO2.nl:

Image number: 8696
Collection: Nederlands Instituut voor Oorlogsdocumentatie
Caption: Dutch forces in Normandy. Air protection is provided by the defense platoon.

8696-hi.jpg

Edited to attach larger scan and updated link to source:

Beschrijving: Koninklijke Nederlandse Brigade Prinses Irene.
Landing in Normandië [luchtafweergeschut gemonteerd op een vrachtwagen. Een soldaat wast zijn haren]
Datum augustus 1944
Locatie Frankrijk, Normandië
Nummer toegang 2.24.01.03
Bestanddeelnummer 934-9669

NL-HaNA_2.24.01.03_0_934-9669.jpg
Source: http://proxy.handle.net/10648/ad84e3...8-003048976d84

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

If it does show the Prinses Irene Brigade coming ashore, it would mean they had Bedford MW's on strength.

And here is another picture showing the Prinses Irene Brigade had Bedford MW's on strength. This is an early open cabbed one, typical for the hodge-podge of hand-me-down vehicles they were equipped with.



Source: www.gemeentearchief.denhaag.nl

Intocht van de Prinses Irenebrigade, Bezuidenhoutseweg bij het ministeriegebouw
Fotonummer: 6.00303
Fotograaf: Schrama, J.M.G., 101/4
Datum: ex. 8 mei 1945
1 zwartwitfoto 18 x 24 cm

1193a01.jpg

[John A. Rippingham]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

And here is another picture showing the Prinses Irene Brigade had Bedford MW's on strength. This is an early open cabbed one, typical for the hodge-podge of hand-me-down vehicles they were equipped with.



Source: www.gemeentearchief.denhaag.nl

Hello Hanno,
The bedford shown above is the tanker that is listed. It has the pump on the front bumper, and if you look closely the curve of the rear mudguard. The tankers were produce upto 1943 ish with aeroscreens, so it may not have been an early production one.

All the best john

[Rogier Peeters]

Thanks John for identifying the Bedford!

On the Haagse Beeldbank another photo of the same vehicle has become available:

http://www.haagsebeeldbank.nl/hga:col1:dat335307

According to the Irene Brigade vehicle list, the vehicle number was L1284766, the chassis number MW19426 and the engine number 16685.

Another photo shows a 1939 or 1940 Ford which was part of the brigade HQ:

http://www.haagsebeeldbank.nl/hga:col1:dat246076